Post by Brian M on Jan 31, 2009 23:36:39 GMT
From: Tinker (Original Message) Sent: 20/03/2006 17:55
Can anybody help, have just bought a safari 17/4 but cannot find a serial number. (no plate on side of doorway) any ideas on how to find it.
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From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 20/03/2006 19:05
Three unlikely possibilities, but they should at least be checked out:
1. Does the serial number appear on any documents that came with the 'van?
2. Check whether, when the plate was removed (perhaps because a panel was either refinished or replaced to repair accident damage), it was stowed somewhere in the 'van.
3. Do you have any record of previous owners, or of dealers who may have worked on the 'van? If so it is remotely possible that one or more of them may have a note of it.
Failing that, I suspect that tracing the serial number may well prove impossible, although there is one glimmer of hope via the Safari records that Brian has been offered (and which he is hoping to see later this year).
However you can probably at least date it fairly accurately on the basis of the written material and the photographs already published on these pages. You might like to post some photos of your new acquisition anyway, and if you are in difficulty with the dating we can probably do it from the photos; for models from 1978 onwards the key features are the rear end panel, wheel spats (or absence of them), type of securing catch and stays for opening windows (interior view needed), and mouldings around the interior cupboard doors and the drawer fronts.
Prior to 1978 one key feature is whether it is fitted with double glazing; varying degrees of partial double glazing were fitted to 'vans in 1976, as apparently a transitional year; full double glazing appears to be 1977 onwards, and full single glazing appears to be up to 1975.
The shape of the gas locker may possibly provide supporting information; up to 1974 (at least) it was the early, short and non-streamlined design, which had no provision for on-board battery stowage. At some stage after 1974 (I am not sure quite when, but I think it may have been 1975) this was replaced by a longer and more streamlined design, specifically in order to accommodate a battery. The difficulty is that the later and better design is a direct fit onto the earlier 'vans, and when the new design came out many owners of existing Safaris decided to upgrade their gas lockers in order to have the benefit of an on-board battery. So if a Safari has the older design of gas locker it fairly reliably dates it as an early one (i.e. up to perhaps 1974), but if it has the later gas locker we can't rely on that alone to date the 'van because it may not be original.
If you require a unique identification for insurance purposes there is (or should be) an alternative to the serial number; the chassis number should be on a plate underneath the caravan, on the A-frame. On my 1978 17/2 it is a metal plate and on the offside, but on the 1980 17/2 it is a plastic plate and on the nearside, so you you may have to look around to find your one. That will be the chassis manufacturer's number (i.e. B&B Trailers, later taken over by Alko) of the chassis that they supplied to Safari Caravans / Pearman Briggs; it will be just as unique as the serial number, but it won't be the same number and there is unlikely to be any correlation at Alko between the chassis number and the subsequent caravan serial number.
It is however possible that Alko may be able to tell you when the chassis was built, and it is also possible that the Safari records mentioned above may be able to identify the caravan serial number from the chassis number.
Hope this is at least some help.
Oliver
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From: Brian Sent: 20/03/2006 19:13
Oliver beat me to it while I was sending a welcome email to Tinker, and as always has provided a complete answer.
But one other question for everyone - have you ever found the serial number anywhere else - written on the back of a panel somewhere. Or was the serial number only allocated when the Safari was complete. I find it surprising that the only identification was on a self adhesive label that can easily be removed.
It wouldn't be allowed nowadays, but perhaps theft was not the problem it is today when our Safaris were built.
As Oliver suggests, post a picture and we will try to identify the age of your 17/4.
Brian Miller
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From: Tinker Sent: 20/03/2006 20:29
Thank you,
unfortunately the documents I have do not have the serial number written anywhere, the handbook is 1980 so I'm assuming that was the year of manufacture. I have only had the safari since saturday and it is in need of a bit of work but I have to get it insured for storage purposes so I shall try the chassis number as you suggest.
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From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 21/03/2006 07:30
If the chassis number also turns out to be missing there is another possible approach to the problem of having a unique identification for the 'van for insurance purposes, but you would need to check this with your insurer first; give it an invented serial number. This should be one that is in period, but which we know has never been issued, and you could inscribe it onto two or three metal plates which could then be attached at more than one location.
Start with the two digits for the year, and then add any three digits you like as long as it is high enough to be a number that Safari never actually used. My understanding is that we know of no Safaris numbered much higher than 250 or 260 in any one year, so if you choose a number such as 80350 or later (if you decide yours is a 1980 'van) you should be fairly safe.
Even safer would be to add a suffix letter; e.g. 80350-A, or even 80350-R06 (i.e. "Renumbered 2006").
Another useful dodge for positive identification in the event of theft, should the police later manage to recover it, is to put details of your name and address in a number of hidden locations that a thief is unlikely to notice but which are readily accessible to those who know that the information is there. Possible locations for this could include:
Inside the wardrobe beneath the false floor
On top of the fridge (behind the trim panel above the fridge)
On the underside of the draining board (you will need to lift the draining board to access this)
Behind the vanity cupboard in the washroom (remove a very few screws and it lifts out)
No doubt you can find other similarly hidden locations.
PS. Must do this myself... ... I did it on the 1978 one, but have still to do it on the 1980 one...
Good luck,
Oliver
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Recommend Delete Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 26/03/2006 14:01
Correction: working from memory of one of Brian's postings some time ago I misremembered the second digit, so my figure for highest serial numbers issued is 100 out.
If you have to go down the route of generating your own serial number you therefore need to be comfortably above 350, say 80450.
However if you have already done it, there is only one year when we know of a serial number approaching 350, 1978 (i.e. 78349), so if you have dated it as any year other than that (and have chosen a number of 350 or higher) you are probably unique anyway.
Sorry about the mix-up.
Oliver
Can anybody help, have just bought a safari 17/4 but cannot find a serial number. (no plate on side of doorway) any ideas on how to find it.
First Previous 2-6 of 6 Next Last Delete Replies
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 2 of 6 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 20/03/2006 19:05
Three unlikely possibilities, but they should at least be checked out:
1. Does the serial number appear on any documents that came with the 'van?
2. Check whether, when the plate was removed (perhaps because a panel was either refinished or replaced to repair accident damage), it was stowed somewhere in the 'van.
3. Do you have any record of previous owners, or of dealers who may have worked on the 'van? If so it is remotely possible that one or more of them may have a note of it.
Failing that, I suspect that tracing the serial number may well prove impossible, although there is one glimmer of hope via the Safari records that Brian has been offered (and which he is hoping to see later this year).
However you can probably at least date it fairly accurately on the basis of the written material and the photographs already published on these pages. You might like to post some photos of your new acquisition anyway, and if you are in difficulty with the dating we can probably do it from the photos; for models from 1978 onwards the key features are the rear end panel, wheel spats (or absence of them), type of securing catch and stays for opening windows (interior view needed), and mouldings around the interior cupboard doors and the drawer fronts.
Prior to 1978 one key feature is whether it is fitted with double glazing; varying degrees of partial double glazing were fitted to 'vans in 1976, as apparently a transitional year; full double glazing appears to be 1977 onwards, and full single glazing appears to be up to 1975.
The shape of the gas locker may possibly provide supporting information; up to 1974 (at least) it was the early, short and non-streamlined design, which had no provision for on-board battery stowage. At some stage after 1974 (I am not sure quite when, but I think it may have been 1975) this was replaced by a longer and more streamlined design, specifically in order to accommodate a battery. The difficulty is that the later and better design is a direct fit onto the earlier 'vans, and when the new design came out many owners of existing Safaris decided to upgrade their gas lockers in order to have the benefit of an on-board battery. So if a Safari has the older design of gas locker it fairly reliably dates it as an early one (i.e. up to perhaps 1974), but if it has the later gas locker we can't rely on that alone to date the 'van because it may not be original.
If you require a unique identification for insurance purposes there is (or should be) an alternative to the serial number; the chassis number should be on a plate underneath the caravan, on the A-frame. On my 1978 17/2 it is a metal plate and on the offside, but on the 1980 17/2 it is a plastic plate and on the nearside, so you you may have to look around to find your one. That will be the chassis manufacturer's number (i.e. B&B Trailers, later taken over by Alko) of the chassis that they supplied to Safari Caravans / Pearman Briggs; it will be just as unique as the serial number, but it won't be the same number and there is unlikely to be any correlation at Alko between the chassis number and the subsequent caravan serial number.
It is however possible that Alko may be able to tell you when the chassis was built, and it is also possible that the Safari records mentioned above may be able to identify the caravan serial number from the chassis number.
Hope this is at least some help.
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 6 in Discussion
From: Brian Sent: 20/03/2006 19:13
Oliver beat me to it while I was sending a welcome email to Tinker, and as always has provided a complete answer.
But one other question for everyone - have you ever found the serial number anywhere else - written on the back of a panel somewhere. Or was the serial number only allocated when the Safari was complete. I find it surprising that the only identification was on a self adhesive label that can easily be removed.
It wouldn't be allowed nowadays, but perhaps theft was not the problem it is today when our Safaris were built.
As Oliver suggests, post a picture and we will try to identify the age of your 17/4.
Brian Miller
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 4 of 6 in Discussion
From: Tinker Sent: 20/03/2006 20:29
Thank you,
unfortunately the documents I have do not have the serial number written anywhere, the handbook is 1980 so I'm assuming that was the year of manufacture. I have only had the safari since saturday and it is in need of a bit of work but I have to get it insured for storage purposes so I shall try the chassis number as you suggest.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 5 of 6 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 21/03/2006 07:30
If the chassis number also turns out to be missing there is another possible approach to the problem of having a unique identification for the 'van for insurance purposes, but you would need to check this with your insurer first; give it an invented serial number. This should be one that is in period, but which we know has never been issued, and you could inscribe it onto two or three metal plates which could then be attached at more than one location.
Start with the two digits for the year, and then add any three digits you like as long as it is high enough to be a number that Safari never actually used. My understanding is that we know of no Safaris numbered much higher than 250 or 260 in any one year, so if you choose a number such as 80350 or later (if you decide yours is a 1980 'van) you should be fairly safe.
Even safer would be to add a suffix letter; e.g. 80350-A, or even 80350-R06 (i.e. "Renumbered 2006").
Another useful dodge for positive identification in the event of theft, should the police later manage to recover it, is to put details of your name and address in a number of hidden locations that a thief is unlikely to notice but which are readily accessible to those who know that the information is there. Possible locations for this could include:
Inside the wardrobe beneath the false floor
On top of the fridge (behind the trim panel above the fridge)
On the underside of the draining board (you will need to lift the draining board to access this)
Behind the vanity cupboard in the washroom (remove a very few screws and it lifts out)
No doubt you can find other similarly hidden locations.
PS. Must do this myself... ... I did it on the 1978 one, but have still to do it on the 1980 one...
Good luck,
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 26/03/2006 14:01
Correction: working from memory of one of Brian's postings some time ago I misremembered the second digit, so my figure for highest serial numbers issued is 100 out.
If you have to go down the route of generating your own serial number you therefore need to be comfortably above 350, say 80450.
However if you have already done it, there is only one year when we know of a serial number approaching 350, 1978 (i.e. 78349), so if you have dated it as any year other than that (and have chosen a number of 350 or higher) you are probably unique anyway.
Sorry about the mix-up.
Oliver