Post by Brian M on Jan 31, 2009 22:17:15 GMT
From: AlecGatherer (Original Message) Sent: 05/03/2005 10:06
Hi all
New member currently "enjoying" caravan holidays in a Thompson Mini-Glen (they don't call them Mini-Glen for nothing). In an attempt to prevent my wife from having to sit in the toilet compartment while I make the bed up, I'm considering a more luxurious 'van and have always admired the Safaris of various friends.
My query - opinions sought on whether my 1½ litre Riley will pull a 12/2 Safari. I have 2½s that would pull the house, never mind caravans, but the 1½'s running, the 2½s aren't.
I should mention that all this is pending the completion of a 1957 Cheltenham Sable rebuild. It was rescued from the set of "Heartbeat" and featured in several early episodes - I have footage of people being stabbed, arrested, dying from TB, being stalked etc. all in my 'van (can wood framework catch TB?).
Thanks in advance
Alec Gatherer
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From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 05/03/2005 11:25
I presume from your reference to both 1-1/2 litre and 2-1/2 litre Rileys that you mean the RM series, and not the comparatively modern (60s? British Leyland?) car.
I don't know the kerbside weights of your cars, but that is only one indicator. So far as controlling the outfit is concerned, the 85% recommendation is an excellent standard for the newcomer to caravanning, but the experienced caravanner who knows what he is doing and is prepared to assess for himself how the outfit handles and then drive within its limitations can safely tow with a much higher ratio.
I doubt whether Riley Motors ever published either noseweight or maximum trailer weight limits; it was not normal to do so in those days, so making your own judgement based on good sense and good engineering practice is the order of the day here.
Having got those two preliminaries out of the way, based on experiences in the seventies with a Safari 12/2 and (separately, in the sixties) both solo and towing with a friend's earlyish 1-1/2 litre Riley RM (possibly the RMA ?), I would confidently expect that your 1-1/2 litre car will tow the Safari but you might have to be a mite cautious about route planning so as to avoid the most severe hills.
In the sixties and early seventies I used to regularly tow a 1955 Eccles Coronation with a 1939 Rover 16 drophead coupé, which for a few years had only a somewhat clapped-out Rover 14 engine temporarily installed (while I did a very leisurely rebuild of the 16 engine). This outfit coped adequately, anywhere I cared to take it, although I did once - with the smaller and clapped-out engine - find a hill that it did not like; we still got up it, but I suspect that we were right on the limit of what we could tackle.
Although your 'van is heavier than the Eccles I doubt whether the difference is large, and although your engine is smaller than the Rover's it is also a more sporting and more efficient design, and perhaps a slightly more modern one; the Rover was designed more for flexibility than for sporting performance, and did not have the sporting antecedents of the Riley, and neither did it have the benefit of the hemispherical heads. On the one occasion that I towed with the Riley, from Liverpool down to Exeter, it managed the 'van with no problems at all.
So that is one encouraging indicator.
In the seventies I regularly towed my parents' Safari 12/2 with their comparatively modern cars. First with a 1750 cc. Hillman Hunter automatic, which was desperately slow on hills, although there was never any anxiety about whether it would actually get up the gradient. Then, at my instigation, Father changed to a Chrysler 2-litre; this was only a very modest increase in engine size but the difference in performance was remarkable. It was a delight to tow with it, and it would take the 'van anywhere within reason; on one tour of the Scottish Highlands (with three adults, two dogs, an awning, and our normal holiday luggage for a month) we even towed the notorious Tomintoul route across the Cairngorms - complete with several hairpins on 1 in 5 upward gradients; rumour has it that the route is now officially closed to caravans because it is so severe!
Given also that you probably have a lower gearing than more modern cars, that would seem to be another favourable indicator.
If you are able to borrow a Safari to try it out I am sure you could safely do so, with all proper caution, and see how you get on; I would expect the result to be satisfactory, but with the reservation that you might need to avoid particularly severe hills.
If however you have to decide whether to buy without having done such a trial tow, I would encourage you to go ahead, but with the same caution about hills until you have a good feel for where the limit lies. I am sure you will not regret the 'van, and even if you have to just slightly limit where you tow I gather that this is only temporary until such time as you get one of your 2-1/2 litre cars back on the road. Then you can really motor.
However, depending upon when you expect to have your larger Rileys running, it might be worth considering the 14/2 instead of the 12/2; there is significantly more storage space and slightly more living space in the larger 'van, but a bigger question mark as to whether the smaller car will tow it satisfactorily - although I would still expect it to be able to manage if you treat it with care and accept some restrictions on your choice of routes. I myself would be inclined to do so until proved wrong!
In passing, in 1997(?) the Safari Caravan Owners' Club (as I think it still was at the time) arranged a rally in Bristol, to coincide with the Festival Of The Sea which was being put on there. I went to that rally, and was delighted to see that one of the Safaris there was towed by an RM-series Riley. Can't now be certain which model of either car or 'van, although probably the 14/2 and the 2-1/2 litre car.
Regards,
Oliver
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Recommend Delete Message 3 of 3 in Discussion
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 05/03/2005 14:46
Thanks. That's what I call a reply.
Several of my cronies in the incestuous little world of Riley RMs tow Safaris; I have always used older 'vans, but lately have come to appreciate the comfort of a modern one, hence the Cheltenhams and the desire for a Safari.
I have owned Safaris before; I had a Safari minor of 1948 vintage. That was a bit of a joke; it was 90% cupboards, with a swing-out kitchen. The shape would have been quite aerodynamic had the towbar been put on the other way round. It was unfortunately at the bluff "rear" and immediately outside the door. Not recommended for those prone to pub CLs - dawn chorus, early morning sun streaming in, I know! a nice walk, just the thing for the hangover. Door thrown open, stride expectantly forward, and disaster! prostrate, with a worse headache than before, because you forgot about the towbar.
My other Safari was a Safari Four, quite a late one with rounded bottom corners to the windows. A previous owner had painted it cream but with the centre section (lantern roof and bay windows) in brown - we called it "The Skunk". Took me two years to give it away - eventually to a chap who pulled it with a 1911 air-cooled 11-litre Franklin!
The 14/2 would be lovely - a friend of mine is selling one - but we have only 12ft's worth of drive.
I shall resume the hunt. Sorry for rambling.
Hi all
New member currently "enjoying" caravan holidays in a Thompson Mini-Glen (they don't call them Mini-Glen for nothing). In an attempt to prevent my wife from having to sit in the toilet compartment while I make the bed up, I'm considering a more luxurious 'van and have always admired the Safaris of various friends.
My query - opinions sought on whether my 1½ litre Riley will pull a 12/2 Safari. I have 2½s that would pull the house, never mind caravans, but the 1½'s running, the 2½s aren't.
I should mention that all this is pending the completion of a 1957 Cheltenham Sable rebuild. It was rescued from the set of "Heartbeat" and featured in several early episodes - I have footage of people being stabbed, arrested, dying from TB, being stalked etc. all in my 'van (can wood framework catch TB?).
Thanks in advance
Alec Gatherer
First Previous 2-3 of 3 Next Last Delete Replies
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 2 of 3 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 05/03/2005 11:25
I presume from your reference to both 1-1/2 litre and 2-1/2 litre Rileys that you mean the RM series, and not the comparatively modern (60s? British Leyland?) car.
I don't know the kerbside weights of your cars, but that is only one indicator. So far as controlling the outfit is concerned, the 85% recommendation is an excellent standard for the newcomer to caravanning, but the experienced caravanner who knows what he is doing and is prepared to assess for himself how the outfit handles and then drive within its limitations can safely tow with a much higher ratio.
I doubt whether Riley Motors ever published either noseweight or maximum trailer weight limits; it was not normal to do so in those days, so making your own judgement based on good sense and good engineering practice is the order of the day here.
Having got those two preliminaries out of the way, based on experiences in the seventies with a Safari 12/2 and (separately, in the sixties) both solo and towing with a friend's earlyish 1-1/2 litre Riley RM (possibly the RMA ?), I would confidently expect that your 1-1/2 litre car will tow the Safari but you might have to be a mite cautious about route planning so as to avoid the most severe hills.
In the sixties and early seventies I used to regularly tow a 1955 Eccles Coronation with a 1939 Rover 16 drophead coupé, which for a few years had only a somewhat clapped-out Rover 14 engine temporarily installed (while I did a very leisurely rebuild of the 16 engine). This outfit coped adequately, anywhere I cared to take it, although I did once - with the smaller and clapped-out engine - find a hill that it did not like; we still got up it, but I suspect that we were right on the limit of what we could tackle.
Although your 'van is heavier than the Eccles I doubt whether the difference is large, and although your engine is smaller than the Rover's it is also a more sporting and more efficient design, and perhaps a slightly more modern one; the Rover was designed more for flexibility than for sporting performance, and did not have the sporting antecedents of the Riley, and neither did it have the benefit of the hemispherical heads. On the one occasion that I towed with the Riley, from Liverpool down to Exeter, it managed the 'van with no problems at all.
So that is one encouraging indicator.
In the seventies I regularly towed my parents' Safari 12/2 with their comparatively modern cars. First with a 1750 cc. Hillman Hunter automatic, which was desperately slow on hills, although there was never any anxiety about whether it would actually get up the gradient. Then, at my instigation, Father changed to a Chrysler 2-litre; this was only a very modest increase in engine size but the difference in performance was remarkable. It was a delight to tow with it, and it would take the 'van anywhere within reason; on one tour of the Scottish Highlands (with three adults, two dogs, an awning, and our normal holiday luggage for a month) we even towed the notorious Tomintoul route across the Cairngorms - complete with several hairpins on 1 in 5 upward gradients; rumour has it that the route is now officially closed to caravans because it is so severe!
Given also that you probably have a lower gearing than more modern cars, that would seem to be another favourable indicator.
If you are able to borrow a Safari to try it out I am sure you could safely do so, with all proper caution, and see how you get on; I would expect the result to be satisfactory, but with the reservation that you might need to avoid particularly severe hills.
If however you have to decide whether to buy without having done such a trial tow, I would encourage you to go ahead, but with the same caution about hills until you have a good feel for where the limit lies. I am sure you will not regret the 'van, and even if you have to just slightly limit where you tow I gather that this is only temporary until such time as you get one of your 2-1/2 litre cars back on the road. Then you can really motor.
However, depending upon when you expect to have your larger Rileys running, it might be worth considering the 14/2 instead of the 12/2; there is significantly more storage space and slightly more living space in the larger 'van, but a bigger question mark as to whether the smaller car will tow it satisfactorily - although I would still expect it to be able to manage if you treat it with care and accept some restrictions on your choice of routes. I myself would be inclined to do so until proved wrong!
In passing, in 1997(?) the Safari Caravan Owners' Club (as I think it still was at the time) arranged a rally in Bristol, to coincide with the Festival Of The Sea which was being put on there. I went to that rally, and was delighted to see that one of the Safaris there was towed by an RM-series Riley. Can't now be certain which model of either car or 'van, although probably the 14/2 and the 2-1/2 litre car.
Regards,
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 3 in Discussion
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 05/03/2005 14:46
Thanks. That's what I call a reply.
Several of my cronies in the incestuous little world of Riley RMs tow Safaris; I have always used older 'vans, but lately have come to appreciate the comfort of a modern one, hence the Cheltenhams and the desire for a Safari.
I have owned Safaris before; I had a Safari minor of 1948 vintage. That was a bit of a joke; it was 90% cupboards, with a swing-out kitchen. The shape would have been quite aerodynamic had the towbar been put on the other way round. It was unfortunately at the bluff "rear" and immediately outside the door. Not recommended for those prone to pub CLs - dawn chorus, early morning sun streaming in, I know! a nice walk, just the thing for the hangover. Door thrown open, stride expectantly forward, and disaster! prostrate, with a worse headache than before, because you forgot about the towbar.
My other Safari was a Safari Four, quite a late one with rounded bottom corners to the windows. A previous owner had painted it cream but with the centre section (lantern roof and bay windows) in brown - we called it "The Skunk". Took me two years to give it away - eventually to a chap who pulled it with a 1911 air-cooled 11-litre Franklin!
The 14/2 would be lovely - a friend of mine is selling one - but we have only 12ft's worth of drive.
I shall resume the hunt. Sorry for rambling.