Post by Brian M on Oct 28, 2008 12:35:02 GMT
From: TinyHuskies (Original Message) Sent: 15/03/2006 18:19
Hi,
I've just become a proud owner of a Safari 13/4 from 1966.
The van needs to be painted. I have the orginal booklet (attached) advising how to do this.
Can anyone let know whether this advice still holds true? I guess that in the last 39 years paint has evolved and there may be a better type now.
Any advice would be great
Angus
ps - is it easy to find replacement rubber for the window seals?
From: Brian Sent: 19/03/2006 13:56
Angus
What a great document. I'll take it to work and see if I can get copies done.
My guess is that this book pre-dates your 1966 Safari. The caravans pictured are from the late 50's perhaps up to 1962 when the new shape was launched.
So the advice to paint by roller or brush was superceded by the introduction of pre-painted aluminium sheeting as was used on the later Safaris.
Does anyone know when the changes occurred? There are some earlier pictures in my album showing cream paintwork on 1962-3 Safaris that may well have been painted in the manner described in your booklet.
Over to the experts!
Brian Miller
Seconded: it is superb
However I suspect that for most of us this is of historic rather than practical interest, as I am sure that the recommendation to periodically repaint as almost a matter of routine maintenance has been eclipsed by the development of modern paints.
I note also that there is no advice offered on the best method of applying the paint, e.g. brush or roller or spray, and no advice on the techniques of doing so. Although for fast-drying paints, such as modern vehicle paints, a skilled operator with a good quality spraygun can achieve very impressive results, it should not be forgotten that this relies on both a highly developed skill and the availability of the right equipment of professional quality. For those of us who don't have that degree of skill, or access to that equipment, but who are prepared to develop the skills of brush painting the latter can produce results every bit as good as a sprayed surface. Indeed I understand that traditional coachpainters always used to use brushes.
Certainly I feel that I personally can get a vastly better result with a brush than I could ever hope to achieve with a spraygun.
By coincidence I have just re-read Proctor on the subject (Racing Dinghy Maintenance - now long out of print, but readily available second-hand from the usual specialist dealers), and he gives an excellent treatise on the techniques of top quality brush painting with the materials of his day (about 50 years ago). Much of it still applies, and the very few cases where his recommendations are eclipsed by the development of more modern paints are self-evident.
The are several absolutely crucial points:
1 Preparation of the surface. It needs to be perfectly smooth, and well flatted to provide a good key for the paint; this stage is often about 90% of the total labour of the entire job. Don't forget to remove all dust at the end of this stage.
2 Buy absolutely the very best quality brushes you can afford
3 Environment; if at all possible do the job under cover, in a dry and dust-free building
4 Temperature and humidity; choose a dry day, and be absolutely assiduous in ensuring that the temperature is within the range specified by the manufacturer; if too hot the paint will dry too rapidly and you will never keep a wet edge, while if too cold the paint won't flow out properly. Perhaps the ideal is to have the temperature just above the minimum while applying the paint, and then raise the temperature while it dries; that may be achieved by painting early on a summer morning (but wait for any dew to clear first), or at other times of year it can be achieved if you are painting indoors and can put heat on.
5 You should have already removed all dust, at the end of step 1 above. Immediately before you start, go over the entire surface once again to remove all remaining dust, using either a tack rag or a cotton cloth slightly dampened with the appropriate thinners. Do this at least twice; you will be amazed how much dust you manage to collect off a surface from which you thought you had already removed the last remaining dust.
6 At frequent intervals as you paint, wipe over the part of the surface that you are next about to paint in order to remove any dust that has settled since you started.
7 Decant sufficient paint for the job into a separate container, such as a paint kettle. Never paint direct from the tin, because it unnecessarily exposes the main stock to the air, and so it starts to harden prematurely, and also because this risks importing dust and bits of hardened paint into the tin.
8 Don't dip the brush too far into the paint; 3/8 to 1/2 inch is ample. Oops, sorry, ... ... 10 to 13 mm.
9 Apply the paint lengthwise along the panel, then using rather lighter strokes brush across it in order to spread it evenly. Finally lay it off with the very lightest of lengthwise strokes; the brush should be no more than just very gently kissing the surface at this stage.
10 Work on a small area at a time, and plan your work so that you can keep a wet edge; whenever you are painting a new area the edges of all adjacent areas that you have previously painted need to be still wet, so that the paint will flow out properly. With a large area such as a caravan, doing each panel separately makes this aspect very much easier.
11 Don't be tempted to revisit areas already painted in order to correct any defects, or to remove suicidal insects; you will only make matters far worse. Wait until the paint has dried, and insects can often then be washed off and will leave only a barely perceptible blemish - and even that can often be polished out. Runs or other errors of technique should not be allowed to arise, but if they do the best solution is to wait until the paint is hard and then sand them down. Then paint over the substandard area, possibly keeping the job very localised and using thinned paint to fair the work into the surrounding panel.
I have seen (but never tried) a recommendation for a hybrid technique (in a publication of the GP14 Class Association), whereby two people work as a pair; one person applies the paint with a roller, and is immediately followed by the second person who lays it off with a brush. This would seem to be a much faster way of actually getting the paint onto the substrate, while still preserving the quality of finish that is obtained only when the paint is properly laid off with a good quality brush. However this is not a technique that I have ever tried; the very brave (or the totally convinced) may try it, but if one is disappointed in the end result it might then entail an awful lot of sanding down to get back to a suitable surface for then starting one's preferred method.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 08/04/2006 16:04
One further tip; an important one at this time of year.
A few days ago, putting what was intended to be the final coat of paint on the boat, and having unexpected difficulty getting the paint to flow out properly (I have now just sanded it down again, and am about to put on one that I hope will be to a rather better standard), I was forcibly reminded of an excellent tip that I got last winter from the paint manufacturer's technical helpline. Apart from ensuring that ambient and substrate temperatures are up to the minimum specified, it is also helpful to gently warm the can of paint; if working at home, bring it into the house the day before you intend to use it, and stand it near a radiator for a few hours.
Adapting this technique if you are working away from home, I would be inclined to try warming the paint in the same way, but when you then transport it to the caravan try putting it into an insulated box (e.g. a "Coolbox") together with a few other slightly warmer items, in order to maintain its temperature as you drive.
When painting in the colder months of the year, when temperature may be a bit marginal, consider not only the air temperature, but also the temperature of the substrate and the temperature of the paint itself. The minima may be different for all three, and they are also specific to the particular paint you are using. Typical minimum values are 5, 10 or 15 degrees Celsius; with the sort of air temperatures we have had recently the difference between 5 or 10 degrees may be crucial, and 15 is probably unattainable until the weather warms up.
The varnish that I have recently been using, very successfully, (International Paints' Schooner) specifies a minimum for all three temperatures of 10 deg C; easy enough to remember, and I chose days when the ambient temperature was just up to the magic 10 degrees and then put heat on in the garage as the varnish dried, and the results were excellent.
The paint I am now using (Toplac, from the same manufacturer) specifies minimum ambient and substrate temperatures of only 5 deg. C, which is much more easily attained; however the paint itself needs to be at a minimum of 15 deg C - a point that is easily overlooked, as I did with the previous coat, and hence my problems with it not flowing out properly.
I pass this on in the hopes that it may help you to avoid possible disappointment after a lot of hard work.
Good luck,
Oliver
Hi,
I've just become a proud owner of a Safari 13/4 from 1966.
The van needs to be painted. I have the orginal booklet (attached) advising how to do this.
Can anyone let know whether this advice still holds true? I guess that in the last 39 years paint has evolved and there may be a better type now.
Any advice would be great
Angus
ps - is it easy to find replacement rubber for the window seals?
From: Brian Sent: 19/03/2006 13:56
Angus
What a great document. I'll take it to work and see if I can get copies done.
My guess is that this book pre-dates your 1966 Safari. The caravans pictured are from the late 50's perhaps up to 1962 when the new shape was launched.
So the advice to paint by roller or brush was superceded by the introduction of pre-painted aluminium sheeting as was used on the later Safaris.
Does anyone know when the changes occurred? There are some earlier pictures in my album showing cream paintwork on 1962-3 Safaris that may well have been painted in the manner described in your booklet.
Over to the experts!
Brian Miller
Seconded: it is superb
However I suspect that for most of us this is of historic rather than practical interest, as I am sure that the recommendation to periodically repaint as almost a matter of routine maintenance has been eclipsed by the development of modern paints.
I note also that there is no advice offered on the best method of applying the paint, e.g. brush or roller or spray, and no advice on the techniques of doing so. Although for fast-drying paints, such as modern vehicle paints, a skilled operator with a good quality spraygun can achieve very impressive results, it should not be forgotten that this relies on both a highly developed skill and the availability of the right equipment of professional quality. For those of us who don't have that degree of skill, or access to that equipment, but who are prepared to develop the skills of brush painting the latter can produce results every bit as good as a sprayed surface. Indeed I understand that traditional coachpainters always used to use brushes.
Certainly I feel that I personally can get a vastly better result with a brush than I could ever hope to achieve with a spraygun.
By coincidence I have just re-read Proctor on the subject (Racing Dinghy Maintenance - now long out of print, but readily available second-hand from the usual specialist dealers), and he gives an excellent treatise on the techniques of top quality brush painting with the materials of his day (about 50 years ago). Much of it still applies, and the very few cases where his recommendations are eclipsed by the development of more modern paints are self-evident.
The are several absolutely crucial points:
1 Preparation of the surface. It needs to be perfectly smooth, and well flatted to provide a good key for the paint; this stage is often about 90% of the total labour of the entire job. Don't forget to remove all dust at the end of this stage.
2 Buy absolutely the very best quality brushes you can afford
3 Environment; if at all possible do the job under cover, in a dry and dust-free building
4 Temperature and humidity; choose a dry day, and be absolutely assiduous in ensuring that the temperature is within the range specified by the manufacturer; if too hot the paint will dry too rapidly and you will never keep a wet edge, while if too cold the paint won't flow out properly. Perhaps the ideal is to have the temperature just above the minimum while applying the paint, and then raise the temperature while it dries; that may be achieved by painting early on a summer morning (but wait for any dew to clear first), or at other times of year it can be achieved if you are painting indoors and can put heat on.
5 You should have already removed all dust, at the end of step 1 above. Immediately before you start, go over the entire surface once again to remove all remaining dust, using either a tack rag or a cotton cloth slightly dampened with the appropriate thinners. Do this at least twice; you will be amazed how much dust you manage to collect off a surface from which you thought you had already removed the last remaining dust.
6 At frequent intervals as you paint, wipe over the part of the surface that you are next about to paint in order to remove any dust that has settled since you started.
7 Decant sufficient paint for the job into a separate container, such as a paint kettle. Never paint direct from the tin, because it unnecessarily exposes the main stock to the air, and so it starts to harden prematurely, and also because this risks importing dust and bits of hardened paint into the tin.
8 Don't dip the brush too far into the paint; 3/8 to 1/2 inch is ample. Oops, sorry, ... ... 10 to 13 mm.
9 Apply the paint lengthwise along the panel, then using rather lighter strokes brush across it in order to spread it evenly. Finally lay it off with the very lightest of lengthwise strokes; the brush should be no more than just very gently kissing the surface at this stage.
10 Work on a small area at a time, and plan your work so that you can keep a wet edge; whenever you are painting a new area the edges of all adjacent areas that you have previously painted need to be still wet, so that the paint will flow out properly. With a large area such as a caravan, doing each panel separately makes this aspect very much easier.
11 Don't be tempted to revisit areas already painted in order to correct any defects, or to remove suicidal insects; you will only make matters far worse. Wait until the paint has dried, and insects can often then be washed off and will leave only a barely perceptible blemish - and even that can often be polished out. Runs or other errors of technique should not be allowed to arise, but if they do the best solution is to wait until the paint is hard and then sand them down. Then paint over the substandard area, possibly keeping the job very localised and using thinned paint to fair the work into the surrounding panel.
I have seen (but never tried) a recommendation for a hybrid technique (in a publication of the GP14 Class Association), whereby two people work as a pair; one person applies the paint with a roller, and is immediately followed by the second person who lays it off with a brush. This would seem to be a much faster way of actually getting the paint onto the substrate, while still preserving the quality of finish that is obtained only when the paint is properly laid off with a good quality brush. However this is not a technique that I have ever tried; the very brave (or the totally convinced) may try it, but if one is disappointed in the end result it might then entail an awful lot of sanding down to get back to a suitable surface for then starting one's preferred method.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 08/04/2006 16:04
One further tip; an important one at this time of year.
A few days ago, putting what was intended to be the final coat of paint on the boat, and having unexpected difficulty getting the paint to flow out properly (I have now just sanded it down again, and am about to put on one that I hope will be to a rather better standard), I was forcibly reminded of an excellent tip that I got last winter from the paint manufacturer's technical helpline. Apart from ensuring that ambient and substrate temperatures are up to the minimum specified, it is also helpful to gently warm the can of paint; if working at home, bring it into the house the day before you intend to use it, and stand it near a radiator for a few hours.
Adapting this technique if you are working away from home, I would be inclined to try warming the paint in the same way, but when you then transport it to the caravan try putting it into an insulated box (e.g. a "Coolbox") together with a few other slightly warmer items, in order to maintain its temperature as you drive.
When painting in the colder months of the year, when temperature may be a bit marginal, consider not only the air temperature, but also the temperature of the substrate and the temperature of the paint itself. The minima may be different for all three, and they are also specific to the particular paint you are using. Typical minimum values are 5, 10 or 15 degrees Celsius; with the sort of air temperatures we have had recently the difference between 5 or 10 degrees may be crucial, and 15 is probably unattainable until the weather warms up.
The varnish that I have recently been using, very successfully, (International Paints' Schooner) specifies a minimum for all three temperatures of 10 deg C; easy enough to remember, and I chose days when the ambient temperature was just up to the magic 10 degrees and then put heat on in the garage as the varnish dried, and the results were excellent.
The paint I am now using (Toplac, from the same manufacturer) specifies minimum ambient and substrate temperatures of only 5 deg. C, which is much more easily attained; however the paint itself needs to be at a minimum of 15 deg C - a point that is easily overlooked, as I did with the previous coat, and hence my problems with it not flowing out properly.
I pass this on in the hopes that it may help you to avoid possible disappointment after a lot of hard work.
Good luck,
Oliver