Post by Brian M on Feb 1, 2009 13:11:41 GMT
From: Avalon_Tor (Original Message) Sent: 28/07/2008 13:46
Hi everyone,
We're Mike & Zoe and we bought our 12/2 about 3 years ago from the forecourt of Pearman Briggs in Gloucester where it was being sold by one of the mechanics who worked there. We were looking for our first caravan and, although we didn't intend to go to the expense we did, when we saw the amazing lines and character that she possessed, we were hooked. She is in excellent condition up top, but, as identified in a recent service, there are problems with the brake drums (totally worn) and the jockey wheel has failed completely (at the moment I resort to either using my car jack to raise the hitch above the height of the towball or strenuous winding of the front legs). Fortunately (or not depending how you look at it), we only get the opportunity to use our 12/2 a couple of times a year and we can get away without the jockey wheel where we tend to go (the drums should last a couple more seasons).
What we would ideally like to do at sometime in the future would be to totally replace the chassis, but I don't know how feasible it is to support the body underneath and raise it without damaging something, and it couldn't cost anything ;-).
Anyway, this was just an introductory hello to say that there is another proud Safari couple out there, desperately hoping to stay on the road and share the Safari spectacle with all those centrally-heated, characterless, modern tourers.
Thanks for listening.
Mike & Zoe
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Recommend Delete Message 2 of 7 in Discussion
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 28/07/2008 15:07
Hi
Brake drums worn? You wouldn't mean brake shoes would you? In which case they are relatively easy to source and replace, or even reline. Some people on here may well have spares; if not, derelict Safaris crop up quite often, more often than sound ones, anyway!
Details such as year and chassis no. would help.
You're not near Charlton Adam are you? I'm popping in to the Fox & Hounds in August for an overnight stop en route Cornwall (from Manchester); in my Castleton unfortunately.
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Recommend Delete Message 3 of 7 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 28/07/2008 18:00
Wear in the brake shoes is certainly a more common fault than worn drums, but at that age both are well possible.
Brake shoes are easily relined, but you may have to get a specialist to do them, and allow a few days.
Brake drums are partially recoverable if the wear isn't too bad. Principal problem is scoring, and they can be trued up on a lathe, at the expense of increasing diameter, so the amount of metal you can take off is very limited.
If they are beyond that stage, I understand that they are still recoverable but that it is a case of very serious engineering and not worth the work. Far better to look for a pair of reclaimable secondhand ones.
Jockey wheel is worth replacing, and new ones in a range of sizes are readily available, so it should not be desperately difficult to find one that can be made to fit. You may have to settle for a different barrel diameter, in which case you will need to change the clamp at the same time, and perhaps modify the hole in the front cowling, but it is not a big job.
Replacing the entire chassis? What is so desperately bad as to require this? Are the faults in the existing one not repairable? A very major undertaking indeed if you do have to replace it.
Oliver
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Recommend Delete Message 4 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 29/07/2008 11:22
Hi Alec,
The year is 1978 and I'll get the chassis number and post it here. I'm between Gloucester & Cheltenham, so no to your question, sorry.
The mechanic who serviced her told me that the brakes pads were fine but that they were set at maximum and so is the drum (I assume that both can be adjusted to accommodate wear) and that the drum itself is badly worn.
Regards
Mike
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Recommend Delete Message 5 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 29/07/2008 11:31
Hi Oliver,
See my reply to Alec for my comments on the brake drums. I need to source some replacements.
The jockey wheel itself is servicable but the screw thread through the chassis causes the locking bolt to just keep turning. The mechanic quoted me £150 for welding a nut to the outside of the hole to give the bolt something to grip to. I think I'll try taking a crash welding course and hire a unit or find a jockey wheel unit that I can clamp to the external side of the chassis near to where the screw hole is.
As for the chassis, I'm no expert and all I see is plenty of rust underneath, so a full replacement is probably overkill. Maybe, oneday, I'll get under there with a wire brush and see how much is just superficial.
Cheers
Mike
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Recommend Delete Message 6 of 7 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 29/07/2008 13:26
Mike,
If the chassis is basically sound then your mechanic's quote for simply welding a nut onto the chassis seems grossly exhorbitant. If of course he has to start welding plates on to reinforce seriously rusted areas then it is a different ball game altogether, and depending how much reinforcing he has to do it may be perfectly reasonable.
Thinking laterally, if the chassis itself is sound there are several alternatives. If it isn't, then the job becomes much bigger, but as a matter of safety it will require sorting out anyway.
You can do at least some of the preparatory work yourself. Remove the front cowling to expose the clamp, and generally clean up the area around it. Use wire brush and/or old screwdriver (not one of your best cabinet-making ones) to remove surface rust and gunge; hammer and cold chisel to remove flaky rust.
Then thoroughly examine the thread on the bolt; you need to know whether the bolt has to be replaced. If it is damaged the simplest solution is either to buy a new one from any modern jockey wheel clamp or alternatively get a new one made. The latter is at most half an hour's workshop time, to cut a piece of steel rod to length, cut a thread on the end of it, and then bend it to form a handle. Most blacksmiths, most traditional garages (if one can find such a thing these days), and any engineering firm should be able to do it. When I was living in Gloucestershire in the eighties and nineties there were a number of small engineering firms in Gloucester, along Bristol Road, and I am sure that any of them would make you a new bolt.
Alternatively, depending on your own engineering skills and facilities, it is a perfectly viable and straightforward DIY job.
Given that the thread in the chassis is also suspect (at least), the fact that it will be a lot easier to replace with a modern thread rather than the obsolete thread used originally will not matter.
The only likely problem with either making your own or having one made locally is that it probably won't be galvanised, so you will need to protect the surface with paint, but that is not a major issue; I recommend Hammerite for this purpose.
Then, something for it to grip. If you need a new bolt, one option is to make it to a sightly larger diameter, and simply drill out and tap the existing hole in the chassis to accept the larger thread. Another quarter-hour's work at maximum; 3 minutes to collect all the necessary tools, 2 minutes to drill the hole, 5 minutes (if that) to tap it, and 5 minutes for a smoke and to work out the bill!
If you don't need a new bolt, then a nut on the chassis is a reasonable way forward. Be aware that you will need to first identify the thread, which I suspect may be something like 5/16 inch BSF; that is obsolete, but I think it should still be possible to obtain a nut with the right thread, although you may have to look around. Ask a traditional garage, or an engineering firm, or an agricultural engineer.
Don't take that size as gospel; I haven't measured my one, as the caravan is currently in storage.
There used to be a very good agricultural engineer in Churcham (just off the A40, the far side of Gloucester from you), and indeed they might do the whole job for you. As of ten years ago (I haven't had occasion to go there since) they are worth a visit anyway, just to have a look at the steam traction engines and the vintage engineering machinery.
If you have done the preparation, and the chassis is sound, it is only a few minutes' job for a mechanic to now weld a nut onto the chassis. Alternatively, as a DIY job, drill out the hole so that the bolt turns completely freely, and clean back the blind side of the chassis member to clean bright metal (if possible); if you have access to an angle grinder that would be an excellent tool for that job.
Then Araldite a nut onto the blind side of the chassis member. I suggest that the best way to do this is to assemble the jockey wheel dry, and clamp it up tight, and then put a fillet of Araldite all round the outside of the nut to tack it to the chassis. Make sure that you keep the Araldite well clear of the protruding thread on the bolt.
So far as the rest of the chassis is concerned, thoroughly wire brush it to see what you have got. If then it is sound, Hammerite is one suitable paint to protect it.
In case it doesn't occur to you, because it is surprisingly not obvious, the job becomes much easier if you work on one end at a time, and tilt the caravan as far as possible, so that the end you are working on is upwards. That significantly improves your working headroom, and you can improve if further if you also raise the wheels (e.g. onto car ramps or otherwise), or jack up the axle and support it on very heavy duty axle stands.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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Recommend Delete Message 7 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 31/07/2008 23:44
Oliver,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'll consider the options carefully and see how best to proceed.
Cheers
Mike
Hi everyone,
We're Mike & Zoe and we bought our 12/2 about 3 years ago from the forecourt of Pearman Briggs in Gloucester where it was being sold by one of the mechanics who worked there. We were looking for our first caravan and, although we didn't intend to go to the expense we did, when we saw the amazing lines and character that she possessed, we were hooked. She is in excellent condition up top, but, as identified in a recent service, there are problems with the brake drums (totally worn) and the jockey wheel has failed completely (at the moment I resort to either using my car jack to raise the hitch above the height of the towball or strenuous winding of the front legs). Fortunately (or not depending how you look at it), we only get the opportunity to use our 12/2 a couple of times a year and we can get away without the jockey wheel where we tend to go (the drums should last a couple more seasons).
What we would ideally like to do at sometime in the future would be to totally replace the chassis, but I don't know how feasible it is to support the body underneath and raise it without damaging something, and it couldn't cost anything ;-).
Anyway, this was just an introductory hello to say that there is another proud Safari couple out there, desperately hoping to stay on the road and share the Safari spectacle with all those centrally-heated, characterless, modern tourers.
Thanks for listening.
Mike & Zoe
First Previous 2-7 of 7 Next Last Delete Replies
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 2 of 7 in Discussion
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 28/07/2008 15:07
Hi
Brake drums worn? You wouldn't mean brake shoes would you? In which case they are relatively easy to source and replace, or even reline. Some people on here may well have spares; if not, derelict Safaris crop up quite often, more often than sound ones, anyway!
Details such as year and chassis no. would help.
You're not near Charlton Adam are you? I'm popping in to the Fox & Hounds in August for an overnight stop en route Cornwall (from Manchester); in my Castleton unfortunately.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 7 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 28/07/2008 18:00
Wear in the brake shoes is certainly a more common fault than worn drums, but at that age both are well possible.
Brake shoes are easily relined, but you may have to get a specialist to do them, and allow a few days.
Brake drums are partially recoverable if the wear isn't too bad. Principal problem is scoring, and they can be trued up on a lathe, at the expense of increasing diameter, so the amount of metal you can take off is very limited.
If they are beyond that stage, I understand that they are still recoverable but that it is a case of very serious engineering and not worth the work. Far better to look for a pair of reclaimable secondhand ones.
Jockey wheel is worth replacing, and new ones in a range of sizes are readily available, so it should not be desperately difficult to find one that can be made to fit. You may have to settle for a different barrel diameter, in which case you will need to change the clamp at the same time, and perhaps modify the hole in the front cowling, but it is not a big job.
Replacing the entire chassis? What is so desperately bad as to require this? Are the faults in the existing one not repairable? A very major undertaking indeed if you do have to replace it.
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 4 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 29/07/2008 11:22
Hi Alec,
The year is 1978 and I'll get the chassis number and post it here. I'm between Gloucester & Cheltenham, so no to your question, sorry.
The mechanic who serviced her told me that the brakes pads were fine but that they were set at maximum and so is the drum (I assume that both can be adjusted to accommodate wear) and that the drum itself is badly worn.
Regards
Mike
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 5 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 29/07/2008 11:31
Hi Oliver,
See my reply to Alec for my comments on the brake drums. I need to source some replacements.
The jockey wheel itself is servicable but the screw thread through the chassis causes the locking bolt to just keep turning. The mechanic quoted me £150 for welding a nut to the outside of the hole to give the bolt something to grip to. I think I'll try taking a crash welding course and hire a unit or find a jockey wheel unit that I can clamp to the external side of the chassis near to where the screw hole is.
As for the chassis, I'm no expert and all I see is plenty of rust underneath, so a full replacement is probably overkill. Maybe, oneday, I'll get under there with a wire brush and see how much is just superficial.
Cheers
Mike
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 6 of 7 in Discussion
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 29/07/2008 13:26
Mike,
If the chassis is basically sound then your mechanic's quote for simply welding a nut onto the chassis seems grossly exhorbitant. If of course he has to start welding plates on to reinforce seriously rusted areas then it is a different ball game altogether, and depending how much reinforcing he has to do it may be perfectly reasonable.
Thinking laterally, if the chassis itself is sound there are several alternatives. If it isn't, then the job becomes much bigger, but as a matter of safety it will require sorting out anyway.
You can do at least some of the preparatory work yourself. Remove the front cowling to expose the clamp, and generally clean up the area around it. Use wire brush and/or old screwdriver (not one of your best cabinet-making ones) to remove surface rust and gunge; hammer and cold chisel to remove flaky rust.
Then thoroughly examine the thread on the bolt; you need to know whether the bolt has to be replaced. If it is damaged the simplest solution is either to buy a new one from any modern jockey wheel clamp or alternatively get a new one made. The latter is at most half an hour's workshop time, to cut a piece of steel rod to length, cut a thread on the end of it, and then bend it to form a handle. Most blacksmiths, most traditional garages (if one can find such a thing these days), and any engineering firm should be able to do it. When I was living in Gloucestershire in the eighties and nineties there were a number of small engineering firms in Gloucester, along Bristol Road, and I am sure that any of them would make you a new bolt.
Alternatively, depending on your own engineering skills and facilities, it is a perfectly viable and straightforward DIY job.
Given that the thread in the chassis is also suspect (at least), the fact that it will be a lot easier to replace with a modern thread rather than the obsolete thread used originally will not matter.
The only likely problem with either making your own or having one made locally is that it probably won't be galvanised, so you will need to protect the surface with paint, but that is not a major issue; I recommend Hammerite for this purpose.
Then, something for it to grip. If you need a new bolt, one option is to make it to a sightly larger diameter, and simply drill out and tap the existing hole in the chassis to accept the larger thread. Another quarter-hour's work at maximum; 3 minutes to collect all the necessary tools, 2 minutes to drill the hole, 5 minutes (if that) to tap it, and 5 minutes for a smoke and to work out the bill!
If you don't need a new bolt, then a nut on the chassis is a reasonable way forward. Be aware that you will need to first identify the thread, which I suspect may be something like 5/16 inch BSF; that is obsolete, but I think it should still be possible to obtain a nut with the right thread, although you may have to look around. Ask a traditional garage, or an engineering firm, or an agricultural engineer.
Don't take that size as gospel; I haven't measured my one, as the caravan is currently in storage.
There used to be a very good agricultural engineer in Churcham (just off the A40, the far side of Gloucester from you), and indeed they might do the whole job for you. As of ten years ago (I haven't had occasion to go there since) they are worth a visit anyway, just to have a look at the steam traction engines and the vintage engineering machinery.
If you have done the preparation, and the chassis is sound, it is only a few minutes' job for a mechanic to now weld a nut onto the chassis. Alternatively, as a DIY job, drill out the hole so that the bolt turns completely freely, and clean back the blind side of the chassis member to clean bright metal (if possible); if you have access to an angle grinder that would be an excellent tool for that job.
Then Araldite a nut onto the blind side of the chassis member. I suggest that the best way to do this is to assemble the jockey wheel dry, and clamp it up tight, and then put a fillet of Araldite all round the outside of the nut to tack it to the chassis. Make sure that you keep the Araldite well clear of the protruding thread on the bolt.
So far as the rest of the chassis is concerned, thoroughly wire brush it to see what you have got. If then it is sound, Hammerite is one suitable paint to protect it.
In case it doesn't occur to you, because it is surprisingly not obvious, the job becomes much easier if you work on one end at a time, and tilt the caravan as far as possible, so that the end you are working on is upwards. That significantly improves your working headroom, and you can improve if further if you also raise the wheels (e.g. onto car ramps or otherwise), or jack up the axle and support it on very heavy duty axle stands.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 7 of 7 in Discussion
From: Avalon_Tor Sent: 31/07/2008 23:44
Oliver,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'll consider the options carefully and see how best to proceed.
Cheers
Mike