Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 13:56:31 GMT
From: Denzel10009 Sent: 21/08/2007 22:04
Hi Fi, I am doing up a Safari 12/2 1979. It had water coming in
behind the grab handles (which were loose) and the frame was rotted
away behind them. My approach was to use car body filler to fill the
frame as much as I could and to fill the screw holes on the
outside. I was thinking of putting Vinyl stickers (flowers and
butterflies) on the bits where the filler is (where the handles
were). It is not really practical to put the handles back because the
frame underneath has 'gone' and I suspect yours is the same. My
solution will be to replace the jockey wheel with a mechanically
driven 'mover' device to replace the function of the grab handles and
facilitate easy moving of the van. I have considered repairing the
frame and also bolting the grab handles through the outer and inner
skin and then though large bits of wood on the inside of the van but
either of these options is a v.big undertaking and not guaranteed to
work. At least I have succeeded in stopping the damp penetration.
Good luck in your endeavours. Den.
Reply
Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion
From: Brian Sent: 22/08/2007 08:10
Fi and Den
Den is correct is saying that the condition of the timbers behind the grab handles is what really counts.
If it has got the dreaded damp in it then no matter how big the screws are, you will not be able to use the handles again!
But it is possible that your is in an "in-between state" where the original screws have opened up too big a hole in the timbers, but there is still some structural integrity remaining.
When I rebuild my front end, to refix my handles, I got some longer bolts with one inch diameter washers and dome head nuts for the inside. I had to enlarge the holes in the base plates to take the bolt, but it wasn't too much of a task, and my handles seem to be very firm! The other necessity is to fill the drilled holes with sealant and cover the base plate, then remove the excess when it is all tightened up.
Brian
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Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion
From: ClassicSafariman Sent: 22/08/2007 17:59
Agreed that the condition of the wood is crucial.
Provided the wood is sound, there are two further options.
The first is to adapt what the makers themselves did towards the end of the line. If you can pick up some 1981/2 grab handles I think you will find that they are through-bolted, with no visible external fastenings. Instead they appear to be secured by either bolts or studs and nuts which are concealed behind the curtains.
I confess that I have never stripped one, but have merely observed the fittings on my late parents' 1981 and '82 Safaris, so I can't say whether bolts or studs and nuts are used. The bolt heads, or stud ends and nuts (whichever they are) are concealed behind domed covers behind the curtains.
The second approach is to adapt a technology from marine woodwork. Drill out the hole to a slightly larger diameter, e.g. 8 or 10 mm, then bond in a succession of hardwook plugs, and when the adhesive has cured you can screw into new wood.
These must be proper plugs, not dowels, i.e. the grain must be across rather than along the axis of the hole, so that you are not screwing into end grain, and they must be hardwood. Bond them in with a really good glue; for marine work two of the standard adhesives are WEST epoxy or Balcotan, and you probably cannot do better than these two..
Suitable teak plugs are readily available from yacht chandlers, or you can cut your own in any hardwood with a plug cutter - which in turn are readily available from specialist tool suppliers - do an internet search on the phrase "plug cutter".
However if the wood is not basically sound there is little or nothing that you can do until the rotten wood has been replaced.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion
From: towedhall Sent: 23/08/2007 18:38
I used plasterboard fixing screws , these are available from any DIY shop. They have two parts one which is a coarse thread and is screwed in first and a self taper which holds the grab handle on.
Reply
Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: Brian Sent: 24/08/2007 10:07
Fi
Just a word of caution - your fixing plugs are still relying on the wood to hold the handles on.
On one of the Safaris I scrapped, I was positioning it by hand and as it got a bit close to my garage, my neighbour grabbed a handle to stop it rolling and the handle came off in his hand and the Safari hit my gutter!
Use the tow hitch for pulling forward, and the handles for pushing or turning sideways.
Brian
Hi Fi, I am doing up a Safari 12/2 1979. It had water coming in
behind the grab handles (which were loose) and the frame was rotted
away behind them. My approach was to use car body filler to fill the
frame as much as I could and to fill the screw holes on the
outside. I was thinking of putting Vinyl stickers (flowers and
butterflies) on the bits where the filler is (where the handles
were). It is not really practical to put the handles back because the
frame underneath has 'gone' and I suspect yours is the same. My
solution will be to replace the jockey wheel with a mechanically
driven 'mover' device to replace the function of the grab handles and
facilitate easy moving of the van. I have considered repairing the
frame and also bolting the grab handles through the outer and inner
skin and then though large bits of wood on the inside of the van but
either of these options is a v.big undertaking and not guaranteed to
work. At least I have succeeded in stopping the damp penetration.
Good luck in your endeavours. Den.
Reply
Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion
From: Brian Sent: 22/08/2007 08:10
Fi and Den
Den is correct is saying that the condition of the timbers behind the grab handles is what really counts.
If it has got the dreaded damp in it then no matter how big the screws are, you will not be able to use the handles again!
But it is possible that your is in an "in-between state" where the original screws have opened up too big a hole in the timbers, but there is still some structural integrity remaining.
When I rebuild my front end, to refix my handles, I got some longer bolts with one inch diameter washers and dome head nuts for the inside. I had to enlarge the holes in the base plates to take the bolt, but it wasn't too much of a task, and my handles seem to be very firm! The other necessity is to fill the drilled holes with sealant and cover the base plate, then remove the excess when it is all tightened up.
Brian
Reply
Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion
From: ClassicSafariman Sent: 22/08/2007 17:59
Agreed that the condition of the wood is crucial.
Provided the wood is sound, there are two further options.
The first is to adapt what the makers themselves did towards the end of the line. If you can pick up some 1981/2 grab handles I think you will find that they are through-bolted, with no visible external fastenings. Instead they appear to be secured by either bolts or studs and nuts which are concealed behind the curtains.
I confess that I have never stripped one, but have merely observed the fittings on my late parents' 1981 and '82 Safaris, so I can't say whether bolts or studs and nuts are used. The bolt heads, or stud ends and nuts (whichever they are) are concealed behind domed covers behind the curtains.
The second approach is to adapt a technology from marine woodwork. Drill out the hole to a slightly larger diameter, e.g. 8 or 10 mm, then bond in a succession of hardwook plugs, and when the adhesive has cured you can screw into new wood.
These must be proper plugs, not dowels, i.e. the grain must be across rather than along the axis of the hole, so that you are not screwing into end grain, and they must be hardwood. Bond them in with a really good glue; for marine work two of the standard adhesives are WEST epoxy or Balcotan, and you probably cannot do better than these two..
Suitable teak plugs are readily available from yacht chandlers, or you can cut your own in any hardwood with a plug cutter - which in turn are readily available from specialist tool suppliers - do an internet search on the phrase "plug cutter".
However if the wood is not basically sound there is little or nothing that you can do until the rotten wood has been replaced.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
Reply
Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion
From: towedhall Sent: 23/08/2007 18:38
I used plasterboard fixing screws , these are available from any DIY shop. They have two parts one which is a coarse thread and is screwed in first and a self taper which holds the grab handle on.
Reply
Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: Brian Sent: 24/08/2007 10:07
Fi
Just a word of caution - your fixing plugs are still relying on the wood to hold the handles on.
On one of the Safaris I scrapped, I was positioning it by hand and as it got a bit close to my garage, my neighbour grabbed a handle to stop it rolling and the handle came off in his hand and the Safari hit my gutter!
Use the tow hitch for pulling forward, and the handles for pushing or turning sideways.
Brian