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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 9:55:54 GMT
fionam8 (Original Message) Sent: 06/09/2008 19:37 I have the reversing problem with the brakes. I have now discovered just behind the handbrake lever a device like a shock absorber with two wires eminating from it. This doesn't seem to do anything even when I energise the wire. Does anybody know anything about this? I would be grateful for info on the subject. Fiona
First Previous 2-6 of 6 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 6 in Discussion From: ClassicSafariman Sent: 07/09/2008 22:25 What year and which model? I confess that I am puzzled, and I have never seen such a device in the position that you describe, but two remote possibilities do come to mind. First, if the caravan is of the right period, it could just possibly be a reversing solenoid. If so, it should be connected (nowadays) via the 12S plug and socket to the car's reversing lights, and when reverse gear is engaged it should activate and insert a plunger as a physical obstruction to prevent the overrun brake system from coming "on". If nothing happens when you energise it, the two most likely faults are a break in the electrical circuit, or the plunger seized up with either rust or the accumulated gunge of years. It may or may not be repairable, but an ohmmeter across the wires will soon tell you at least whether you have a valid circuit. All I can tell you about the period when these were used is that when my parents bought their 1974 12/2 new it had the later Sigma V mechanical system built into the brakes themselves, using the Lockheed Reversing Brake, but the chassis manual that came with the caravan referred to both systems, so at some stage prior to 1974 (and/or possibly up to and including 1974 for some models) the electrical system was in use. I may possibly have some literature pertaining to this system in my file in the caravan; I have it at home at the moment so will go outside to check later. Second, probably less likely, around ten years ago my local caravan dealer (Harringtons) - and no doubt others - were offering an electrical actuator for caravan brakes, designed to supplement but not replace the existing system. This was a continental system, and the idea was to reduce the risk of snaking. The system worked by applying the caravan brakes directly, as soon as the car brake lights came on, with then a proportional increase in braking force related to the deceleration of the tow hitch (and thus of the car, rather than the caravan). There was also the possibility of independently applying the caravan brakes independently, by means of a dashboard switch. The theory was that this system would remove most situations in which the caravan pushes the car, and that by ensuring that the coupling was always in tension it would help to reduce snaking. In a well balanced outfit sensibly driven it would possibly eliminate snaking altogether. For that, read if you wish, "A well balanced outfit sensibly driven should be largely immune from snaking anyway, but this system both assists the less experienced driver with a heavy caravan, and allows the more experienced driver to safely tow a little faster than would otherwise be safe." Hope this may help. Oliver
Reply Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion From: fionam8 Sent: 09/09/2008 20:13 Thank you for replying. Our van is 11/2, I think, 1971. I examined the brake system and it has no spring loaded reversing system in the shoes. This solenoid is on the main rod and it looks like the van was born with it. I dismantled it and found an oil filled cavity, heavily spring loaded with a solenoid which seems to me much too dainty to overcome the spring pressure. It is electrically damaged, but I can fix that, and the electromagnet works. I can't see it being big or powerful enough to motor the plunger out against the spring pressure. The cylinder is also oil filled and appears to work as some sort of shock absorber, but unlike a shock absorber it has a one way cylinder rubber like a brake cylinder. It also has a crude valve behind the electromagnet. This was stuck, but I have now freed it. Must think! Also I believe it to be energised by the reverse light circuit, but can't think what it does. All fresh ideas welcome.
Reply Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion From: ColinLee1 Sent: 10/09/2008 18:07 Hi Foina
I had a Servo Device in the 70's. Described in Safari 1 Doc. in the Documents Section.
As described that was pneumatic, perhaps someone designed a similar hydraulic device.
ColinC
Reply Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 10/09/2008 20:47 1971 is slightly earlier than the Safari models that I know, and I have no technical literature on them. And on checking my file in the caravan I find that I was mistaken in thinking that my chassis handbook refers to both reversing systems; sorry about that.
I can however now confirm that the Lookheed Reversing Brake was in use continually from at least 1973.
Thinking laterally, you have an oil-filled chamber, a plunger, and a solenoid. Could it possibly be that that the system is a shock absorber designed to smooth out any jerks in towing, but in which the solenoid closes off the route for the oil to move (when energised, for reversing) and so temporarily prevents the hitch moving backwards relative to the chassis?
That might explain why only a very light duty solenoid is needed; if all the plunger has to do is to serve as a valve it might not necessarily need a large force to move it.
Oliver
Reply Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion From: fionam8 Sent: 18/09/2008 22:27 Update on reversing brake saga. I bravely removed the cylindrical object from my caravan and dismantled it, as I have described. I then took the offending object, hereafter refered to as "The Bomb" to work and continued my investigative surgery, repairing the severed wiring to the eletromagnet as I went. It seems to be an oil filled inner cylinder with a spring loaded plunger and several holes at the rear of the cylinder to allow oil to be displaced into the outer cylinder( also oil filled). the oil moves freely when the solenoid is energised, reducing the tension on the brake rod, allowing the caravan to be reversed. When reverse gear is disengaged, a wee spring in the solenoid core is supposed to close the little plastic valve, instantly transforming the bomb into a solid part of the brake rod and restoring normal overrun brake service. Well, in theory anyway. In practice, I fear, the bomb is perfectly useless as the key components are obviously much too small and feeble to do their jobs. Worse than that, some genius probably got a design award and a generous fee for coming up with it. Oh well. there,s always a finely crafted chunk of angle iron I suppose.
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 10:21:57 GMT
From: Brian (Original Message) Sent: 20/07/2006 18:21 New member Rich_HFG has brake problems with his 1978 12-2: "She is currently off the road with a brake problem. After a test circuit of a few miles around the storage one wheel gets hot. I have checked, lub'ed and adjusted from hitch to brake pads and I have also tried swapping the drums over but still the same wheel gets hot. It's very frustrating because all seems to work when she is on blocks. I was pleased to find the pic's of pages from the workshop manual on the braking system. I intend to follow it to the letter very soon (print is a bit fuzzy). I am at present trying to source the following Lockheed spares from a local auto spares shop: Brake rubber boot set of two LPP 144 Not available. Any suggestions? Rubber Lub LPK 102 In stock Expander Lub LPK103 Not available. Any suggestions? Anti-seize Copper Grease LPK 104 Alternative available. Any advice from anyone? Brian
First Previous 2-5 of 5 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 5 in Discussion From: Rich_FHG Sent: 14/08/2006 16:19 Brian - Update to my braking promblem:
After hitch to wheel servicing by the manual (see notes to follow regarding springs, boots and lubricants) I still had the same Near Side (LHS) wheel brake drum getting hot. Since the caravan has been in my ownership for some 18 years and only recently started the problem I didn't think to look for incorrect parts but that is what I found. The brake shoes are pulled off by two springs. One of these springs is a double spring located on the expander side and holds the brake assembly in position by being hooked to the backplate. The LHS spring is the right length overal but the position of the top spring section is to high and so the brake assembly drops off centre and drags on the hub. I contacted B&B trailers who supplied me with two new boots but the springs are obsolete and out of stock.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A SPARE NEAR SIDE (LHS) Black DOUBLE SPRING. 120mm overall and 16mm straight bit in the middle. (See attached jpg)
RiCH
Reply Recommend Message 3 of 5 in Discussion From: Scaniadriver72 Sent: 03/09/2006 20:39 Rich I once had a Elddis 1972 tornado which also ran on B&B chassis and it was needing new shoes.When I went into my local partco with the shoes the partsman told me Morris 1000s run the same size and the shoes were exactly the right ones.Now it may well be, the case with the springs too.I hope this is of some help. Regards Brian
Reply Recommend Message 4 of 5 in Discussion From: towedhall Sent: 03/09/2006 22:00 Hi Rich, Oliver posted brake manual diagram when I had problems , see pictures page 2 , hope this helps.
Steve
Reply Recommend Message 5 of 5 in Discussion From: Rich_FHG Sent: 11/09/2006 14:20 Brian Thanks for the Morris info. Steve Spotted Oliver's manual already - used it. Thanks anyway.
Good news. Just returned from Coniston trip with my Safari. Have managed to fix my brake spring problem with a small bolt and two notched washers inserted together in to the upper part of the spring. Brake assembly is now in correct position. Will have more to say regarding recent renovation work later. Great to be back on the road with the old girl. Off to Wales now.
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 13:53:02 GMT
From: valencian (Original Message) Sent: 06/07/2007 10:35 Hello to all, have just become a member and need some advice on the towing section of my Safari. There is something missing from the braking section of the van. When I reverse on level ground or when puting the van down a slope it's no problem; but when i reverse the van up a gradient the braking section on the van moves back and of course the wheels lock up. the only wat I can stop this is to stuff an iron bar down the handbrake slot and stop the mechanism from moving back. Nor a suitable arrangement at all. the braking system on my Safari looks identical to the army 1/4 and 1 ton trailers systems. with those you had to place a metal sleeve on the telescopic part of the system to stop it moving backwards. Can anyone offer advice on how to solve my problem. The van is great for 2 people and although the washing area is a little primative compared to the state of the art jobs out there today it is not a big problem as all sites have showere etc. Owning a safari enables me to meet others on sites as there are always those who ask to have a look around and seem impressed considering my van is 28 years old. I hop someone out there can help me as on quite a few sites I have visited I have to reverse up a small incline and it is a serious problem for me. Regards to all, John First Previous 2-3 of 3 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 3 in Discussion From: Brian Sent: 07/07/2007 07:51 Welcome to the group John. The overrun/reversing situation always used to puzzle me - in both situations the hitch is pushed back and if your brakes are adjusted correctly, why don't they go on when you reverse? On lesser caravans (like the Knowsley I used to have) I had to get out of the car and flip a spacer piece over the push rod when reversing - a real pain if it was raining and easy to forget to flip back again when driving off! Safaris have a much cleverer method that is so subtle that it is easily missed. The brake system detects the drum going backwards and doesn't apply the brakes! This is done by the leading shoe sitting in a carrier plate that allows it to release the shoes from the drum when the hub is going backwards. Oliver has posted pictures of the brakes that you can find at groups.msn.com/ClassicSafariCaravanEnthusiasts/chassishandbook.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=427 Assuming the rod system is correctly adjusted and is applying the brakes on the over run (I have a gravel driveway that is perfect for testing the caravan brakes, an emergency stop moves the gravel in six places, four for the car and two for the caravan!) you should remove the drums and shoes and thoroughly clean everything, making sure that the front shoe is sliding in the carrier. I hope this helps and please let us all know how you get on. Brian Group Founder Reply Recommend Message 3 of 3 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 10/07/2007 12:15 John, Having checked that all is well inside the bake drums, as Brian describes, also then check the adjustment. Start with the linkage completely disconnected at the forward end, and adjust the shoes in the drums so that they are only just not binding. You should be able to rotate the drums by hand. Then take up any slack in the expander mechanism. You won't find this tip in the chassis manual, but by the time the brakes get to this age there is likely to be some wear there. The pull rods, after emerging from the back plates, should have adjustable distance pieces on them; free these off, then pull out each rod in turn just sufficiently to take up any slack, ensure that you can still rotate the drum by hand with the rod in this position, slide back the distance piece to bear against the back plate, and clamp it in that position. You should also have external return springs running from the back plate to a position a short distance along the pull rods; check that these do in fact fully retract the rods. Now check that all the rods are straight, lubricate the entire mechanism at the tow hitch end and also the compensator at the axle, and reconnect the linkage to the brake lever. Adjust so that there is 13 mm free play between the back of the handbrake lever and the brake operating lever that bears on it; this adjustment is crucial to the overrun system. Check that when the handbrake is fully applied the compensator is in such a position that all rods are at right angles to their respective arms on the compensator. You should now have a perfectly working brake system, but now test it. The handbrake should hold (when fully applied) on a reverse slope of 18 degrees, the overrun brakes should do nearly all the work of stopping the caravan as required when being towed, and you should be able to reverse up a gradient. If all else works apart from reversing up a gradient, and you have assiduously set up the system in the way described, then very slightly easing off the adjustment of the main pull rod (by the adjuster in the rod, just aft of the handbrake lever) is permissible and should sort this out, but then re-check that it will still hold on the 18 degree reverse slope and that the overrun brakes still work as required. Hope this helps, Oliver
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 14:01:05 GMT
From: kadrian0 (Original Message) Sent: 11/11/2007 23:31 I am sure this may already have been asked but please bare with me. I have a 1976 12/2, B&B chassis, does anyone know which car brake shoes fit ??
First Previous 2 of 2 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 2 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 12/11/2007 01:41 I am reasonably sure that by the date of your caravan the chassis would have had the "Sigma" reversing brake system. This mounts the shoes to a spring system, instead of the usual fixed pivot point, so that the brakes are automatically released as soon as you start to reverse. If you have this system, as I believe you will have, the shoes are specially designed for this application.
See the Chassis Handbook (page 3 of the Pictures section of this site) for information on this system.
I would therefore think it highly unlikely that car brake shoes will fit. However if yours merely need relining you should find that any caravan workshop would be able to arrange to have it done, and probably also any motor factor. But allow a little time; it won't be an exchange straight off the shelf.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 14:02:39 GMT
From: jezz569 (Original Message) Sent: 26/11/2007 20:51 Hi can enyone please tell me where i can obtain some new brake cables from for a 1964 17/4 or if enybody could give me the measurements and tell me what type of fittings are on each end of the cables, A diagram would be fantastic so i can get some made up. First Previous 2-9 of 9 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 9 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 26/11/2007 22:21 Are you sure they are cables? I ask because the particular questions you ask suggest that they are missing altogether, rather than merely in need of replacement, and the later Safaris (i.e. 70s onwards) used rods rather than cables. It would be worth having a look at the chassis handbook for the later models (on this site, in the Pictures section) and see whether the system there corresponds. If it does correspond then that will give you the layout and tell you what type of fittings were used, and if it is helpful I can measure the rods on my 1980 17-2; the latter is worth a try as it is entirely possible that the geometry may have remained unchanged. Whether brakes or rods, don't overlook the importance of the compensator, which balances the pull between the two wheels. This needs to move freely but positively, and so needs to be well lubricated but have no play in it; at some stage it will eventually need re-bushing, and at the age that they have now become that point may possibly have been reached. Also be aware if you do have rods that they should be absolutely straight. Any bend in a rod effectively introduces stretch into system (because the rod elongates as it is pulled straight under load), and this reduces the effectiveness of the brakes. Hope this helps, Oliver Reply Recommend Message 3 of 9 in Discussion From: jezz569 Sent: 27/11/2007 19:16 Hi oliver thanks for your reply. To cut a long story short the caravan is in south wales and i am in lincolnshire, and after talking to the present owner again it is brake rods and not cables, unfortunaly when he was freeing of the brakes he noticed one of the rods had rotted throw so before the van can be towed to lincolnshire to its new home hopefully i have got to get some new rods ect, do you have any idea where to buy these items thanks GERRY Reply Recommend Message 4 of 9 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 27/11/2007 21:48 If weather is fit tomorrow I will try to measure up. The most satisfactory long-term solution will be to make new rods, or have them made, but it is very possible that that may have to wait until you get the 'van home. You certainly won't pick up finished rods off the shelf. It is a fairly straightforward workshop job to make up and fit replacement rods, but it could be a nightmare trying to do it in a field 200 miles from home, with no proper facilities. So by all means try to anticipate and take potential replacements, but I would also take as a backstop solution three suitable lengths of plain mild steel rod (not threaded) and a supply of Bulldog grips. Plus a hacksaw, and spanners, etc. Rods long enough to bypass the full length of all the originals if you need to. Then you can temporarily secure a length of new rod in parallel with the rotted section/s, using at least two Bulldog grips either side of the damaged region (i.e. at least 4 in total) to secure the two rods together. Use 3 each side if in any doubt about the state of the original rod where you are going to clamp it. Sketch attached. Mild steel rod should be available from any steel stockholder (try Yellow Pages), or is probably available from major DIY stores such as B&Q. Bulldog grips are available from most yacht chandlers, either over the counter or by post. This link will take you to the relevant page on the Jimmy Green Marine site, and I believe they supply by post: www.jimmygreen.co.uk/product_info/bulldog_grip_stainless_steel.htmBulldog grips are intended for emergency joining of rigging at sea, which is certainly a situation where multiple lives may depend on the security of the fastening, and as an experienced yachtsman I have on occasion routinely and confidently trusted my security to these grips when at sea. I would therefore also trust them in this situation - but you do need to get the right size, and use at least two each side of the damaged area, and then use a spanner to get them as tight as you possibly can. You may be able to replace the longitudinal rod before you tow, provided the length is exact and the threads match. But getting that right in advance when when the caravan is a couple of hundred miles away may be a problem - hence my suggestion of temporarily bypassing it just to get you home. The rods that then run outwards (along the axle) to the brake drums will be much more difficult to sort out before you tow; I suspect that you will have to dismantle the brakes, including removing and dismantling the expander cylinders, and then make up new rods and fit them to the actual expanders. Indeed you may need to replace the expanders as well. That is a workshop job, which is much more easily attempted after you get the caravan home. So if the damage is in the longitudinal rod you might be able to change it, but the "Bulldog bypass" is your backstop. If the damage is on the rods to the brake expanders I wouldn't even try to change them on site; go direct for the bypass. Then, of course, take the journey home with all due caution - you don't know what else may be more than a little "iffy"! Hope this helps; measurements to follow. Oliver Bypass Using Bulldog Grips.jpg Reply Recommend Message 5 of 9 in Discussion From: jezz569 Sent: 27/11/2007 22:51 Thanks for all of the info oliver, I beleve it is a rod that runs to the expander have you got any idea what type and size of thred it is on each end of the rod and is there any where i can buy expanders or there componants. I will take plenty of plain rod a tap and die set and will defanatly look at some of those bulldog grips. Thanks GERRY
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 14:11:06 GMT
From: fionam8 (Original Message) Sent: 06/09/2008 19:37 I have the reversing problem with the brakes. I have now discovered just behind the handbrake lever a device like a shock absorber with two wires eminating from it. This doesn't seem to do anything even when I energise the wire. Does anybody know anything about this? I would be grateful for info on the subject. Fiona
First Previous 2-6 of 6 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 6 in Discussion From: ClassicSafariman Sent: 07/09/2008 22:25 What year and which model? I confess that I am puzzled, and I have never seen such a device in the position that you describe, but two remote possibilities do come to mind. First, if the caravan is of the right period, it could just possibly be a reversing solenoid. If so, it should be connected (nowadays) via the 12S plug and socket to the car's reversing lights, and when reverse gear is engaged it should activate and insert a plunger as a physical obstruction to prevent the overrun brake system from coming "on". If nothing happens when you energise it, the two most likely faults are a break in the electrical circuit, or the plunger seized up with either rust or the accumulated gunge of years. It may or may not be repairable, but an ohmmeter across the wires will soon tell you at least whether you have a valid circuit. All I can tell you about the period when these were used is that when my parents bought their 1974 12/2 new it had the later Sigma V mechanical system built into the brakes themselves, using the Lockheed Reversing Brake, but the chassis manual that came with the caravan referred to both systems, so at some stage prior to 1974 (and/or possibly up to and including 1974 for some models) the electrical system was in use. I may possibly have some literature pertaining to this system in my file in the caravan; I have it at home at the moment so will go outside to check later. Second, probably less likely, around ten years ago my local caravan dealer (Harringtons) - and no doubt others - were offering an electrical actuator for caravan brakes, designed to supplement but not replace the existing system. This was a continental system, and the idea was to reduce the risk of snaking. The system worked by applying the caravan brakes directly, as soon as the car brake lights came on, with then a proportional increase in braking force related to the deceleration of the tow hitch (and thus of the car, rather than the caravan). There was also the possibility of independently applying the caravan brakes independently, by means of a dashboard switch. The theory was that this system would remove most situations in which the caravan pushes the car, and that by ensuring that the coupling was always in tension it would help to reduce snaking. In a well balanced outfit sensibly driven it would possibly eliminate snaking altogether. For that, read if you wish, "A well balanced outfit sensibly driven should be largely immune from snaking anyway, but this system both assists the less experienced driver with a heavy caravan, and allows the more experienced driver to safely tow a little faster than would otherwise be safe." Hope this may help. Oliver
Reply Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion From: fionam8 Sent: 09/09/2008 20:13 Thank you for replying. Our van is 11/2, I think, 1971. I examined the brake system and it has no spring loaded reversing system in the shoes. This solenoid is on the main rod and it looks like the van was born with it. I dismantled it and found an oil filled cavity, heavily spring loaded with a solenoid which seems to me much too dainty to overcome the spring pressure. It is electrically damaged, but I can fix that, and the electromagnet works. I can't see it being big or powerful enough to motor the plunger out against the spring pressure. The cylinder is also oil filled and appears to work as some sort of shock absorber, but unlike a shock absorber it has a one way cylinder rubber like a brake cylinder. It also has a crude valve behind the electromagnet. This was stuck, but I have now freed it. Must think! Also I believe it to be energised by the reverse light circuit, but can't think what it does. All fresh ideas welcome.
Reply Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion From: ColinLee1 Sent: 10/09/2008 18:07 Hi Foina
I had a Servo Device in the 70's. Described in Safari 1 Doc. in the Documents Section.
As described that was pneumatic, perhaps someone designed a similar hydraulic device.
ColinC
Reply Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 10/09/2008 20:47 1971 is slightly earlier than the Safari models that I know, and I have no technical literature on them. And on checking my file in the caravan I find that I was mistaken in thinking that my chassis handbook refers to both reversing systems; sorry about that.
I can however now confirm that the Lookheed Reversing Brake was in use continually from at least 1973.
Thinking laterally, you have an oil-filled chamber, a plunger, and a solenoid. Could it possibly be that that the system is a shock absorber designed to smooth out any jerks in towing, but in which the solenoid closes off the route for the oil to move (when energised, for reversing) and so temporarily prevents the hitch moving backwards relative to the chassis?
That might explain why only a very light duty solenoid is needed; if all the plunger has to do is to serve as a valve it might not necessarily need a large force to move it.
Oliver
Reply Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion From: fionam8 Sent: 18/09/2008 22:27 Update on reversing brake saga. I bravely removed the cylindrical object from my caravan and dismantled it, as I have described. I then took the offending object, hereafter refered to as "The Bomb" to work and continued my investigative surgery, repairing the severed wiring to the eletromagnet as I went. It seems to be an oil filled inner cylinder with a spring loaded plunger and several holes at the rear of the cylinder to allow oil to be displaced into the outer cylinder( also oil filled). the oil moves freely when the solenoid is energised, reducing the tension on the brake rod, allowing the caravan to be reversed. When reverse gear is disengaged, a wee spring in the solenoid core is supposed to close the little plastic valve, instantly transforming the bomb into a solid part of the brake rod and restoring normal overrun brake service. Well, in theory anyway. In practice, I fear, the bomb is perfectly useless as the key components are obviously much too small and feeble to do their jobs. Worse than that, some genius probably got a design award and a generous fee for coming up with it. Oh well. there,s always a finely crafted chunk of angle iron I suppose.
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Post by Brian M on Jan 29, 2009 14:58:23 GMT
From: nimueandme (Original Message) Sent: 02/06/2004 00:05 hi,we are absolutly fed up with these brakes,once again there seemed to be no problem,everything running free and greased and coming off and on when ram at front was pushed and pulled and springs changed.Soooooo ....we set off on 50 ish mile trip to Kielder and would still be there if by some stroke of luck a relative with a transit van had not been there also (purely by chance} to tow us home as the car would never have done it due to brakes intermitently jamming on. The last time boiled car over so badly it was lucky to survive........anyone know about brakes? is there a way to set bar as I think you can adjust it at front nimueandme
First Previous 2-7 of 7 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 7 in Discussion From: Gareth851 Sent: 02/06/2004 07:56 Ref the brake problems on nimueandme's caravan; How far have you looked into the problem? Have you stripped out the shoes? The reason for my asking is that I am a caravan mechanic for Pearman Briggs and have to say that the set up used on Safaris is usually very reliable, the only time I have come across a problem similar to yours was when the spring which is used to retain the shoes to the back plate had broken and was 'flying' around in the drum causing the brakes to intermitantly jam on. If you find that the springs in yours are damaged or broken let me know as I have one spare set left. If you require any other brake parts you may be struggling. I recently replaced the brakes in my own 12/2 and had the shoes relined as opposed to trying to find new shoes from any of our suppliers (although I was told they available). On my van the actuator with the two prongs was also broken and is almost certainly not available so I had to manufacture a 'new' one of these with the help of another engineer in the workshop who is a good welder. To sum up, things you should check are; 1) Hitch head damper, does it damp? Does it at least make an effort to return on it's own? (Although returning is not as important as the damping) 2) Brake rodding, are they straight? Is the junction where it splits to each wheel free? There are grease nipples on the pivots. 3) Adjustment, try redoing it. Jack up the van, pull the hitch head completely forward and spin the wheel, then adjust the shoes (through the hole on the front of the wheel and drum, if the wheel has been put on the correct way around) until they bite enough to stop you being able to turn the wheel, then release the adjuster between 2 and 4 clicks (or the amount of clicks needed to free up the movement), a small amount of rubbing will not matter and is largely unavoidable, but they should not be restricting rotation of the wheel. 4) Finaly strip and inspect the brakes as I talked about above. Hope some of this may be of help, if you are continuing to have trouble feel free to contact me either on or off group as I'm sure we can 'suss' this out between us. Gareth.
Reply Recommend Message 3 of 7 in Discussion From: Brian Sent: 02/06/2004 08:02 Nimue Sorry to hear you are still having problems with your brakes. I haven't had mine apart yet at the wheel end, but have had the hitch off and then had to reset the gap behind the hitch "plunger" (I'm sure it has a better name), and mine are perfect. I assume you have a gap between the plunger and the bit that connects to the rod that goes back under the body? Also that your hitch is well greased and coming forwards freely? Are your brakes free when you start off and start binding after you have done a bit of reversing? If so it could be something inside the drums. I will look up the bit in the manual about the reversing mechanism and try to post something later today - must get off to work now! Perhaps Gareth can contribute something. Brian Miller
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Post by Brian M on Jan 30, 2009 23:30:55 GMT
From: Brian (Original Message) Sent: 23/09/2004 09:01 I came across this on ebay and thought it might be of interest to members. Especially over the winter when you can snd your shoes away!
WE CAN RELINE VINTAGE BRAKES CARAVAN BRAKES AT LOW PRICES
CALL FOR A QUOTE EST 1979 AUTOBRAKE 01604 751279 (Northants)
Alternatively does any one know if our brakes are the same as any classic car which could provide a cheaper alternative?
Brian Miller
First Previous 2-8 of 8 Next Last Delete Replies Reply Recommend Delete Message 2 of 8 in Discussion From: V_J_R Sent: 23/09/2004 10:07 Hello brian and all they are the brake shoes the same as "Morris Minor" etc also my local trailer builders "Wilmond engineering" re-line all shoes no problem, they are based in hitchin hertfordshire details here: sales@wilmond.co.uk. Alternatively, you can call on 01462 459495 or fax us on 01462 420102 or write to us at 45 Bury Mead Road, Hitchin, Herts, SG5 1RX.
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Reply Recommend Delete Message 3 of 8 in Discussion From: robthechemist Sent: 23/09/2004 20:18 Yes, agree with you they are the Morris Minor, the shocks i could not locate but got an identical length from a specialist suspension shop and just had to add a few spacers. The bearings are off the shelf from bearing specialists. The tricky bits are the piping that goes to the gas fire underneath the van, this rusts through and is a major fire hazard, (worth a check) but can be made specially by going to a hose/braiding specialist.
Reply Recommend Delete Message 4 of 8 in Discussion From: Brian Sent: 23/09/2004 22:03 Rob Re Wheel Bearings. I don't suppose you kept a note of the reference number for the wheel bearings did you? There is a Safari owner who is not yet a member who needs to buy new bearings before she can strip down the old ones, and so has asked me if I know the part number. Cheers Brian Miller
Reply Recommend Delete Message 5 of 8 in Discussion From: robthechemist Sent: 24/09/2004 19:25 No, sorry i just removed them and took them down to the bearing shop and they handed me new ones. The shop is in Snow Hill in stoke on trent but i cant think of its name. They said they were a common bearing. rob
Reply Recommend Delete Message 6 of 8 in Discussion From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 26/09/2004 23:38 I am not surprised to find that some, and perhaps many, Safari brake shoes are the same as those for the Morris Minor, but Safari brakes are NOT all the same! From memory, without looking up the chassis specifications (which are not at home, but in my other Safari), they are fitted with Lockheed brakes, but at least two different sizes are used. The later 14 ft Safaris used 13" wheels, and (I think) 8" brakes; the 17 ft Safaris use 14" wheels and (from memory) 10" brakes, but certainly the 17s use larger wheels and brakes than the 14s. I have no knowledge of the 15 ft models, having never owned or worked on one, nor (with one exception) the various sizes smaller than 14 ft. It also seems possible that specifications may have changed over the years; these vans were in production for quite a long time. Many years ago I spoke with Ted Billington about the chassis specification of my 17/2, and even he had to think to recollect precisely which brakes he had fitted to my model. He was then in his late old age (early 90s I think), so this may simply be a reflection of his age and the length of time since he had been professionally involved, and since the question was relevant to the advice that I sought from him he wanted to make certain that he was right. However it may also indicate that specifications may have changed with time. For members who do not know Ted, before he retired he was Managing Director of B&B Trailers and was the engineer who designed the Safari chassis, and was a prominent member of the Safari Caravan Owners Club, which later became the Safari Caravan Club. For those who do (or did) know Ted, does anyone know whether he is still alive? Sadly the Safari Caravan Club is nowadays no longer an owners' club, and at the time I left them it had become very rare indeed to find more than just one or two Safaris on a rally; it had become effectively a Carlight club in all but name. But that is another story.... Regards to all, Oliver Shaw
Reply Recommend Delete Message 7 of 8 in Discussion From: robthechemist Sent: 28/09/2004 20:54 The brakes on my Safari ie the "Morris minor" were for the 15/4. Sorry for any confusion.
Reply Recommend Delete Message 8 of 8 in Discussion From: Brian Sent: 08/10/2004 18:44 Further to the previous messages regarding wheel bearings, Polly, who is not yet a member of the group has told me that the reference numbers for a 12-2 are as follows:
Outer LM11949 with cup 11910
Inner LM67048 with cup 67010
Oil seal W23715050R4
Hope this may help a member in the future.
Brian Miller
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