Post by Brian M on Feb 1, 2009 13:00:04 GMT
From: josjk1 (Original Message) Sent: 05/03/2008 21:45
Hello , Who can help me with the following problem.
In 2001 I was on my way to Dover and I met an elderly couple on a campsite . For a rather long time I was looking for on old caravan to fit to my Amozone station(see foto). To make a long story short, I bought the caravan in a split second , rushed to the harbour to get my ferry and got back to the UK a few weeks later to take it to Holland , where I live.
The caravan is in superb condition and it is the only safary in holland (at least I think ) at this moment.
In 2002 you did not need official documents, you simply had to put a licenseplate of the pulling vehicle at the caravan and ready it was. BUT.....
as from 2005 everything hanging behind a car needed its own linceplate. At that moment the trouble started. It was only possible to obtain official documents including licenseplate if I could show the official English documents of the Safari caravan which I could not because I donot have them.
The former owner unfotunatly cannot help me anymore because he died shortly after I bought his caravan.
If I have to change the caravan to meet the current 2008 technical demands (which is the only option at this moment) I can better set fire to it because that is impossible.
My hope is that I can prove the official age using a copy of someone having the same type of caravan or buying documents of a scrap caravan an changing the numbers .
My safari is a 12/2 type with chassis nbr 81217.
Who has a bright idea!!??
sorry for English language, but I dutch
IMG_0085.jpg
Reply
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 06/03/2008 01:37
Several lines to try. You may be able to find the chassis number (on the A frame, underneath the caravan). If so, Alko can probably identify the year for you; they are still trading, and they took over B&B Trailers, who built the chassis. I suspect that this may be the best and the easiest way to convince your people.
Failing that I am sure that there are three or four of us who could write a letter vouching for the fact that your chassis number corresponds to the 217th caravan produced in 1981, that this date is fully consistent with the photograph of your caravan, and that all production of traditional Safaris ceased for good the following year.
Effectively the manufacturer ceased trading; they had been taken over by Cosalt many years previously, and after 1982 all that effectively remained of the company was a badge. The badge was very sporadically used by the parent company over the next few years, and then by the late nineties it appears to have been sold to the Swift group. You could try both the Abbey group and the Swift group, but I rather doubt whether either will have any relevant records. However your national authorities may expect you to at least make the effort to enquire of them.
If any of us in this Group are to write a letter for you it would be helpful to also have photos of the rear exterior panel, since this changed considerably in 1980 and again in 1981. also photographs of the mouldings around the interior cupboard and locker doors for the same reason. Also of the window catches, which changed in 1981, and the pelmets - which I think changed in 1980. Although your one photo is entirely consistent with the serial number, the more evidence we have the more convincing the case we can make.
In the absence of the manufacturers, since they are no longer trading, it is then a matter of whether your authorities will accept the evidence of knowledgeable owners who have a specialist knowledge of the marque. However it is worth asking them. It is fair to say that we are probably the now the principal source of expertise and interest in these caravans, and we have no vested interest in your one - we are merely trying to be objective and helpful.
If you decide to go down that route, probably Brian is the ideal person to write it, in his official capacity as Moderator of this group. However I could alternatively do so as an owner who has had 34 year's involvement with the marque, who is a past member of the Safari Caravan Club, and who is the primary author of the material on this site on dating Safaris.
I am still in intermittent touch with Bob Bingham, a one-time Chairman of the Safari Caravan Club, and if necessary I could probably get a letter in similar terms from him.
It is remotely possible that The Caravan Club might also be willing to confirm the date, on the basis of the serial number and the photographs, if they you pointed out to them that they could obtain the information they would need from this group! That would however mean that the immediate supplier of the information to your authorities would be one of the national caravanning authorities of the country of manufacture, which would give added clout. A case of jumping through hoops for the sake of it, but if it helps you in your problem then it is worth it.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
Reply
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 06/03/2008 08:06
What documents? As far as I am aware there is no officially recognised ownership document for a caravan in the U.K. and never has been.
If you can get away with a dossier of documents, receipts, Owners' Manual etc to give provenance, I am sure we can cobble something together. But is that what the authorities in Holland would accept?
Failing that, there is only one solution. Give the caravan to me!
Reply
From: Sylvesteruk1 Sent: 06/03/2008 12:38
I cannot help you but last year at a Caravan Club site in the UK I observed a Dutch caravan and tow vehicle where the caravan number plate was different from the tow vehicles. I then found out to my amazement that the caravan carries its own registration number in Holland and so cant trundle around the UK unchallenged.
What a crazy idea or is it? In the UK when a speed camers goes off does the caravan owner get 3 points or the tow vehicle owner which cannot be recorded as it hidden from the camera by the caravan!
Hell, Europe is in a mess run by petty minded politicians who`s main working day is to see how they can fiddle their expenses and screw up society.
Reply
From: ColinC Sent: 08/03/2008 14:43
Hi Josjk
The number you give 81217 is the Serial Number of the van, the 217th van manufactured in 1981. The Chassis Number is stamped on the A frame or on a plate attached to the frame.
Each new caravan in the <st1:country-region><st1:place>UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> is sold with a Numbered Certificate issued on behalf of the National Caravan Council. The certificate includes the manufacturer’s specification and reference numbers.
It is reasonable to assume that this certificate was recorded and that record still exists.
So far as I am aware the National Caravan Council is still active but the only address I have is thirty years old. For what it’s worth:
43-45 High Street
Weybridge
Surrey
KT13 8BT
Best of luck.
Regards
ColinC
Reply
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 08/03/2008 16:07
That seems an excellent suggestion.
A brief internet search establishes that the National Caravan Council website is:
www.nationalcaravan.co.uk
This appears to be a current site, apparently live and fully updated, and they give their address and other details as:
National Caravan Council
Catherine House
Victoria Road
Aldershot
Hampshire GU11 1SS
Registered No. 519228 England and Wales
Tel: 01252 318251
Fax: 01252 322596
Email: info@nationalcaravan.co.uk
Good luck,
Oliver
Hello , Who can help me with the following problem.
In 2001 I was on my way to Dover and I met an elderly couple on a campsite . For a rather long time I was looking for on old caravan to fit to my Amozone station(see foto). To make a long story short, I bought the caravan in a split second , rushed to the harbour to get my ferry and got back to the UK a few weeks later to take it to Holland , where I live.
The caravan is in superb condition and it is the only safary in holland (at least I think ) at this moment.
In 2002 you did not need official documents, you simply had to put a licenseplate of the pulling vehicle at the caravan and ready it was. BUT.....
as from 2005 everything hanging behind a car needed its own linceplate. At that moment the trouble started. It was only possible to obtain official documents including licenseplate if I could show the official English documents of the Safari caravan which I could not because I donot have them.
The former owner unfotunatly cannot help me anymore because he died shortly after I bought his caravan.
If I have to change the caravan to meet the current 2008 technical demands (which is the only option at this moment) I can better set fire to it because that is impossible.
My hope is that I can prove the official age using a copy of someone having the same type of caravan or buying documents of a scrap caravan an changing the numbers .
My safari is a 12/2 type with chassis nbr 81217.
Who has a bright idea!!??
sorry for English language, but I dutch
IMG_0085.jpg
Reply
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 06/03/2008 01:37
Several lines to try. You may be able to find the chassis number (on the A frame, underneath the caravan). If so, Alko can probably identify the year for you; they are still trading, and they took over B&B Trailers, who built the chassis. I suspect that this may be the best and the easiest way to convince your people.
Failing that I am sure that there are three or four of us who could write a letter vouching for the fact that your chassis number corresponds to the 217th caravan produced in 1981, that this date is fully consistent with the photograph of your caravan, and that all production of traditional Safaris ceased for good the following year.
Effectively the manufacturer ceased trading; they had been taken over by Cosalt many years previously, and after 1982 all that effectively remained of the company was a badge. The badge was very sporadically used by the parent company over the next few years, and then by the late nineties it appears to have been sold to the Swift group. You could try both the Abbey group and the Swift group, but I rather doubt whether either will have any relevant records. However your national authorities may expect you to at least make the effort to enquire of them.
If any of us in this Group are to write a letter for you it would be helpful to also have photos of the rear exterior panel, since this changed considerably in 1980 and again in 1981. also photographs of the mouldings around the interior cupboard and locker doors for the same reason. Also of the window catches, which changed in 1981, and the pelmets - which I think changed in 1980. Although your one photo is entirely consistent with the serial number, the more evidence we have the more convincing the case we can make.
In the absence of the manufacturers, since they are no longer trading, it is then a matter of whether your authorities will accept the evidence of knowledgeable owners who have a specialist knowledge of the marque. However it is worth asking them. It is fair to say that we are probably the now the principal source of expertise and interest in these caravans, and we have no vested interest in your one - we are merely trying to be objective and helpful.
If you decide to go down that route, probably Brian is the ideal person to write it, in his official capacity as Moderator of this group. However I could alternatively do so as an owner who has had 34 year's involvement with the marque, who is a past member of the Safari Caravan Club, and who is the primary author of the material on this site on dating Safaris.
I am still in intermittent touch with Bob Bingham, a one-time Chairman of the Safari Caravan Club, and if necessary I could probably get a letter in similar terms from him.
It is remotely possible that The Caravan Club might also be willing to confirm the date, on the basis of the serial number and the photographs, if they you pointed out to them that they could obtain the information they would need from this group! That would however mean that the immediate supplier of the information to your authorities would be one of the national caravanning authorities of the country of manufacture, which would give added clout. A case of jumping through hoops for the sake of it, but if it helps you in your problem then it is worth it.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
Reply
From: AlecGatherer Sent: 06/03/2008 08:06
What documents? As far as I am aware there is no officially recognised ownership document for a caravan in the U.K. and never has been.
If you can get away with a dossier of documents, receipts, Owners' Manual etc to give provenance, I am sure we can cobble something together. But is that what the authorities in Holland would accept?
Failing that, there is only one solution. Give the caravan to me!
Reply
From: Sylvesteruk1 Sent: 06/03/2008 12:38
I cannot help you but last year at a Caravan Club site in the UK I observed a Dutch caravan and tow vehicle where the caravan number plate was different from the tow vehicles. I then found out to my amazement that the caravan carries its own registration number in Holland and so cant trundle around the UK unchallenged.
What a crazy idea or is it? In the UK when a speed camers goes off does the caravan owner get 3 points or the tow vehicle owner which cannot be recorded as it hidden from the camera by the caravan!
Hell, Europe is in a mess run by petty minded politicians who`s main working day is to see how they can fiddle their expenses and screw up society.
Reply
From: ColinC Sent: 08/03/2008 14:43
Hi Josjk
The number you give 81217 is the Serial Number of the van, the 217th van manufactured in 1981. The Chassis Number is stamped on the A frame or on a plate attached to the frame.
Each new caravan in the <st1:country-region><st1:place>UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> is sold with a Numbered Certificate issued on behalf of the National Caravan Council. The certificate includes the manufacturer’s specification and reference numbers.
It is reasonable to assume that this certificate was recorded and that record still exists.
So far as I am aware the National Caravan Council is still active but the only address I have is thirty years old. For what it’s worth:
43-45 High Street
Weybridge
Surrey
KT13 8BT
Best of luck.
Regards
ColinC
Reply
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 08/03/2008 16:07
That seems an excellent suggestion.
A brief internet search establishes that the National Caravan Council website is:
www.nationalcaravan.co.uk
This appears to be a current site, apparently live and fully updated, and they give their address and other details as:
National Caravan Council
Catherine House
Victoria Road
Aldershot
Hampshire GU11 1SS
Registered No. 519228 England and Wales
Tel: 01252 318251
Fax: 01252 322596
Email: info@nationalcaravan.co.uk
Good luck,
Oliver