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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:28:45 GMT
From: Romily11 (Original Message) Sent: 10/02/2006 19:37
could anyone help me date my safari, I looked at the safari photo's and it looks exactly like 121a.
And does anyone know where i could get the louvred windows for the kitchen window,they are missing.
I am in the middle of renovating our safari at the moment and any advice would be welcome. Its very sound it needs spucing up a littleand all seams/joints need sealing
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:29:07 GMT
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 11/02/2006 12:29
Sorry; I am probably being unintelligent, but I can't identify the photo that you refer to. Which album, and then (within the album) which title?
That apart, there is a lot of detail - and references to album photos - in the Dating Safaris message board, and particularly (for the mainstream classic Safaris) in two strings: Exterior Changes, and Interior Changes. Other strings on this message board give information on some earlier models. This may possibly enable you to date it yourself.
As always, if you can identify the serial number, the first two digits (at least for the mainstream classic Safaris) give the year of manufacture. This is found on an identification plate (if it still exists) on the exterior nearside panel, at approximately floor height, immediately forward of the door.
Failing that, can you post some photos? It would be helpful to see side, front and rear views, and interior views, including one showing drawer fronts and the wood moulding to the cupboard drawers.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Oliver
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:30:20 GMT
From: Romily11 Sent: 11/02/2006 19:01 I do apologise, The pictures that look like my safari are with community.webshots.com/user/eastwoodmanpage 5 of 7numbers 121a to 121g. You will have to excuse me I'm not very good at comunicating on the computer |
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:30:59 GMT
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 11/02/2006 20:33
I think we have got it fairly narrowly dated.
121b shows the rear end panel that was used up to 1978; a different panel was used in 1979/80, but I have no data on precisely when the change was made - merely that it was at some stage in either one of these two years. We know of a number of 1978 'vans with the earlier panel and at least one 1979 one and several 1980 ones with the later panel, but have no confirmation of the precise transition date. See the string "Exterior Changes" on the Dating Safaris message board, and the references to photos on the group pages for details of these two panels.
121d shows the kitchen, and with one exception the mouldings to the interior doors and similar panels are the 1979/80 series. The one exception is the short drawer front (I presume that its what it is) in the middle of the center "column" of panels; that one panel appears to be the pattern used up to 1978.
My best guess for the 'van in those photos is therefore 1979. Provided both these photos agree exactly with your one, that would seem to date it fairly precisely to that year.
However the rear end panel and these interior mouldings are absolutely crucial to precise dating.
A handful of other dating points. Double glazing appears to have been phased in during the course of 1976; a couple of 'vans have surfaced, built in 1976, which have partial double glazing; one has all the main windows double glazed but not the rooflights, and the other (if I remember correctly) has the front windows double glazed but not the back ones.
There were two different designs of front fairing (incorporating the gas locker) used in the seventies, but this is very definitely not a reliable dating indicator; the earlier and more square design accommodated only the gas bottles, whereas the later and more streamlined design was lengthened in order to also provide stowage for an on-board battery. The problem in using this to date a 'van is that the two were interchangeable, and when the later fairing came out a number of owners of earlier 'vans fairly rapidly updated, in order to have the very considerable benefit of the on-board battery; indeed my own parents were among many in doing so.
The front Safari badge had a domed centre, showing a partial globe (of the western world), with the land in green, and carried the legend (from memory) "Safari Caravans, Bowbridge, Stroud" or something very similar. By 1980 the centre of the badge had become flat rather than domed, was slightly recessed below the circular surround, and the globe at the centre had been replaced by the single word COSALT. Of course the earlier badge was the more attractive of the two, so occasional individual owners of later 'vans may have changed the badge for the earlier one. Indeed I am one such who is considering doing so ...
There are two less common retrospective modifications to be aware of. I am not aware of any owners of (then) recent single-glazed 'vans updating to double glazing when it first came in; it would have been an expensive option, and most owners who wanted to update would probably have waited until they next bought a new 'van, but it is remotely possible that in more recent times an owner doing a restoration might perhaps take the opportunity to update from second-hand windows. Not very likely, but just be aware that it is not impossible. Interior woodwork is the other possible update (or retro-date), most likely in the middle age of a 'van if an owner prefers the later (or perhaps earlier) design and sources a donor 'van to do a swap, or even if his woodwork is in poor condition and he sources a donor van for replacements but it is from from the wrong period - and if the donor 'van is then sold on we now have two 'vans with confusing interiors, one updated and the other retro-dated.
Assuming however that we can take everything at face value, if yours has the same mouldings but a more modern rear end panel (with a single raised rectangular plinth on which the lights, number plate and warning triangles are all mounted, and if the light clusters have built-in rear foglamps) it would be 1979/80. If it has the same end panel but simpler (plain D-section) mouldings it would be about 1974(?) to 78; if double-glazed with this donfiguration it would be 1976-78, and if single glazed 1974(?) to 1976. If it has more ornate wood mouldings and a more modern rear end panel, with light clusters that include both built-in rear foglamps and built-in reversing lamps it would be 1981/2.
Check out the "Exterior Changes" and "Interior Changes" message strings, and the references in them to photos of members 'vans, to confirm.
Hope this helps,
Oliver
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:31:55 GMT
From: Brian Sent: 12/02/2006 19:07 As always Oliver provides a detailed and informative answer that I can't fault. I am sorry if he and other members did not know of my storage space for a hundred or so of my Safari pictures. community.webshots.com/user/eastwoodman |
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:32:52 GMT
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 15/02/2006 18:52
Thanks for posting the photos of your 'van, and they seem to confirm my earlier dating.
The rear end panel is clearly the one that was used up to and including 1978, but as I explained the transition to the later panel may have come during 1979.
However your one also has wheel spats; they were not a standard fitment until after at least the start of 1978, and so far as I am aware they weren't fitted until 1979.
So I am fairly certain that your 'van is a 1979 model.
Your rear-end panel and wheel spats are identical (in all respects except the absence of a fridge vent, the position of which depends on the model rather than the year) with the only 1979 Safari for which we have photos; on page 4 of the Pictures section, "lanny's 12-2 for sale".
Can't conclusively identify the model from the photos, except that it seems to be one of 3 possibilities, all of them 4-berth; 13-4, 15-4, or the rare 17-S. The body length (in feet) will identify which of these it is.
Regards, and enjoy,
Oliver
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:33:26 GMT
From: OliverShaw1 Sent: 15/02/2006 19:13
You may have seen my message today on the "Exterior Changes" string.
While I am fairly certain in my dating of your 'van, it does appear to be just about on an important transition point, and one where we would like to refine our information.
If therefore you can let us know your serial number (on the plate by the door, exterior panel at floor level) this would be immensely helpful in either confirming of "tweaking" our understanding of the dates of these changes.
Regards,
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:33:56 GMT
From: Romily11 Sent: 24/02/2006 15:46
the plate by the door says, model 15.4, serial no; 79284, unladen weight;960kg, laden weight;1,200kg. I hope this helps, The photo's of the internal furnishings will be coming soon.And will try to get better pictures of the outsidee of the van.
Regards , Simon
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Post by Brian M on Oct 27, 2008 20:34:39 GMT
From: Brian Sent: 24/02/2006 20:10
Simon
So Oliver's sleuthing again proves absolutely correct.
The first two digits of your serial number are the year of manufacture, 1979 and the 284th Safari off the line puts it at the end of the season.
The highest serial nubmer I have is 349 (for 1978), I don't have one serial number over 300 for any of the other years that I have records, but in several years have numbers in the upper 200's.
So my estimate is 25 per month for an average year and almost 30 in 1978 - making yours a November build.
Does any one have a definite month for the build or first sale of their Safari with a serial number to confirm the mathematics?
Brian
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